Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 10 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Search

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#93397 - 08/02/07 10:40 PM Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
About a year ago a little green parakeet flew into our shop and was looking for something to eat around my M2's large cages. I knew he was a escapee and his time was no doubt short in the big world outside, so I caught him and took him home. He wasn't super tame but he would get on our finger. We put him in the real small parakeet cage we have. Eventually, feeling that cage was too small, we hung that cage inside of a large cockatoo cage and it was odd that he stayed in the big cage even though he could fit though the bars.

6 months ago we decided he looked lonely, so while at the pet store we decided to get him a buddy, another male. We now have the happiest little parakeets I have ever seen. They are really good friends, are always hanging out together and constantly chattering.

Now there is a reason I am telling this story. We put both birds in the large cockatoo cage, about 2' x 3'. The funny thing is, when we take them out of the cage, they can't wait to get back in. In fact, if we take them away from the cage, they will fly back right in the open door. If the door has swung shut, they land on the cage and find a spot to squeeze through. The cage is their world and they have no desire whatsoever to leave it. Once in a while they will squeeze out to chew on a twig sticking outside the cage (didn't know parakeets did that), but they don't stay out long.

It's really pleasing to see a couple of birds so content with their situation. If only my cockatoos would be like that.

#93398 - 08/02/07 10:52 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


sigh!!!!!!!

Edit to add....

I guess I should be more clear as to why your post made me SIGH.

you are an advanced member, I have seen you/ read posts you were in the middle of regarding breeding, selling parrots etc. While Im very happy the two little keets are happy with there situation Im very sad for the keet that replaced the one you purchased. It makes me very sad that even though you know what everyone here fights for, believes in and stands for...you still bought a bird then posted it here.
I dont mean to sound mean or rude. I was just caught off guard by your post. Rescues have more keets than anything because to some people they are throw away birds, first birds, practice birds then tossed out the window to fend for them selves because someone wanted a bigger bird, a better bird, a more interesting talking bird. I dont think your first keet was an escapee...he was probaley tossed out like yesterdays news.

If I have offended...I appologize.

#93399 - 08/03/07 01:03 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
I am sorry but many things posted here concern me.

Quote:
We put both birds in the large cockatoo cage, about 2' x 3'
That is by no means should be considered a large cockatoo cage...My cockatiels each have a cage that size and that just fits them.

Quote:
Once in a while they will squeeze out to chew on a twig sticking outside the cage
If they are squeesing through the bars are too far placed apart and one of them could easily die.You need to put wire up so they can not squeeze through the bars.

Quote:
6 months ago we decided he looked lonely, so while at the pet store we decided to get him a buddy, another male.
That is so very sad...as M2BB said there are so many 'keets in the rescues.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93400 - 08/03/07 02:25 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
These responses really take me by surprise. I apologize for upsetting anyone.

Living with M2's for 26 years now, and having lived with a parakeet for a year before that before he met a tragic end, and now having them back in my life, I have a hard time understanding why parakeets are in rescues. They are so easy to care for. I can't think of any type of pet that's easier except a maybe a fish. Because of that I don't see a big issue with parakeets being bred. Cockatoos and other larger birds, of course.

I feel like that for the simple reason that my 2 parakeets are so totally content in their little world. They don't need my attention whatsoever other than to feed them. There is no comparison between keeping a parakeet and a cockatoo.

As far as cages go, I have my M2's in 6' x 6' x 7' high cages, but they live at my shop where I have room for that large of a cage. But in a home situation, I consider a 2' x 3' cage a large cage for a cockatoo. How many here have bigger than that?

I posted this because this is primarily a cockatoo board, and I thought that this would be a cute story about the simplicity of parakeets as compared to keeping cockatoos. Guess I was wrong.

Just curious, Why do you think they will die squeezing between the bars? The bars are wide enough for them to do it with ease. This isn't a situation where they can get stuck. I would never allow it if that was the case. In fact, we found out about it by accident. We kept the first bird in his small cage in the large cage locked up at first, but when we were home we opened it up so he could roam the larger cage. He didn't leave the large cage, but when we took him out we discovered he preferred inside the cage and also how easily he could get in and out through the bars.

I am leaving town right now for a day or so, so if anyone responds I may not get back right away.

#93401 - 08/03/07 02:31 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


you honestly dont think you did anything wrong by buying a bird, ANYBIRD from a pet store after the time you have spent here? This is something I just dont understand.

#93402 - 08/03/07 02:56 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
Cassie BE2 has a 3 X 3 X 4.5 foot cage. Biddybe parakeet has a 30in X 20in X 3 foot parakeet flight cage.
I'm looking for something larger for Cassie that I can afford.
Biddybe looks so small in this cage I keep going back and forth on getting her a new friend. The cost of vet well bird visit holds me back. Biddy came from the humane society. When I got Cassie unfortunetly the only bird rescues are too far away from me and they require volunteer time first some for six months. They also don't allow you to move out of state and I plan on relocating to Florida. Had I found Mytoos first I would not have bought her. My Vet told me about Mytoos on Cassies first well bird exam. Best thing that I was told about toos. It's been a god send for me. Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#93403 - 08/03/07 02:59 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
Quote:
I have a hard time understanding why parakeets are in rescues.
Hard to understand or not, they are, by the boat load!!! Not only are they fairly easy to care for, but fairly inexpensive. And for these reasons (among others) people think nothing of disposing of them when the novelty has worn off, or God forbid, they decide to move up to a larger bird.

Quote:
Because of that I don't see a big issue with parakeets being bred.
Read above.

Quote:
But in a home situation, I consider a 2' x 3' cage a large cage for a cockatoo. How many here have bigger than that?
I do. Not one of my 'toos cages (including the G2's) are less than 40w"x36d"x72h".

It's great that these guys are happy with their "home" and don't get out even though they can. But there are times when it may be necessary to confine them (emergencies and such) & for their safety I too would be concerned about one of them getting themselves wedged in - perhaps a wing caught at a bad angle. Why not build (or buy) them a nice flight where they can have the same freedom and appropriate gauge wire. I have my keets in a floor to ceiling flight (4 x 3 x 8 ft high)- they love it.

Quote:
I posted this because this is primarily a cockatoo board, and I thought that this would be a cute story about the simplicity of parakeets as compared to keeping cockatoos. Guess I was wrong.
Yes, this is primarily a cockatoo board, but there are some of us here that are concerned with avian welfare as a whole, and don't condone breeding, selling or buying of any birds. And as you have seen, we will get on our soapbox when the opportunity presents itself. wink


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93404 - 08/03/07 03:39 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
Mona Offline
Lives Here
Mona  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
Quote:
But in a home situation, I consider a 2' x 3' cage a large cage for a cockatoo. How many here have bigger than that?
I think you will find a lot of people have larger cages for Cockatoo's. Here is my Goffins cage and as you know, Goffins are very small Cockatoos.

Mimi in her cage

#93405 - 08/03/07 03:56 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mona....I was trying to locate Mimi in that cage and felt like I was playing wheres Waldo!! Thats a GREAT CAGE! I sure wish My Goffin would go on her tree. She just told me she wants a house like Mimi's!!

ike and monica???? Do you mean 2 feet wide????

#93406 - 08/03/07 04:27 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
Mona Offline
Lives Here
Mona  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
LOL she's in there, she has lots of room that's for sure!

A 2x3 sized cage is not suitable for a large Cockatoo. They are very active birds and need a lot of room to move around.

As for keeping Budgies in a cage they can squeeze through the bars, you may not believe it but they COULD get into a situation where a wing gets wedged in between the bars.

Why take a chance? Get them a cage suitable for their size, with the spacing between bars no larger than 1/2 inch.

I won't even get into buying birds from pet stores, that's been covered and as you are not a new, uninformed member of this board, you know our stance on this topic and it's not debatable.

#93407 - 08/03/07 03:46 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,852
jm47 Offline
Chained to the Computer
jm47  Offline
Chained to the Computer
***

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,852
central Iowa
Our sun conure has a 2'x3' cage, and "likes" it, (is territorial about it, and sometimes reluctant to come out) although I'm sure he would easily get just as attached to a 20'x30' one laugh . Thing is, he has the door open most of the daylight hours, and a playtree and toys all over the room. He loves to go outside, but clings to me madly when he does, and keeps one eye on the sky, watching for danger.

I can't imagine a cockatoo staying sane in a cage that small.


Jody
#93408 - 08/03/07 05:30 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 265
GoosesMom Offline
Member
GoosesMom  Offline
Member
*****

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 265
Bronx, NY
Goose (U2) has a 4í x 3í x 6í cage and I still feel like itís too small! Her sleep cage is 2í x 2í x 4í, but thatís only because she feels more secure in the smaller cage at night.

As for the parakeets, I had 2 when I was very young and they had a 2í x 2í parakeet cage, until they started breeding (all on their own, and my mom didnít know how to stop them!). As the flock kept growing, so did the cage and we eventually ended up with another flight cage that was basically floor to ceiling with their numerous offspring. At one point we reached 21 parakeets and I named each one and knew their individual personalities. (I was only about 8 at the time, but I convinced my mom that we had to keep them all). I would never buy a parakeet now, knowing there are so many in rescues who could use a home and knowing that mine could have ended up there if I hadnít been so insistent about keeping them. And I would never keep one in a cage it could escape from, knowing all the dangers they could get into without supervision! Those little guys are mischievous!

~Tiffany and Goose


~Tiffany and Goose
#93409 - 08/03/07 10:30 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
FYI, I'm talking about a cage 2' deep x 3' wide x 5' tall. We are careful and have been observing their actions for some time to try to prevent any accidents.

As for the breeding thing, one of the issues I have with breeding cockatoos is that hand fed babies are not able to adjust and end up biting, screaming and pulling out feathers and removing skin. Has anyone ever seen a parakeet do that? I haven't. They may be in rescues but they don't have any of the issues cockatoos have. They adjust and can be kept in small area in total happiness, and even rehoming them is not an issue. And they don't live forever either. Both of my previous ones before this never made a year because they are so fragile. We originally got a M2 because of that fact, we wanted something that wouldn't break our heart in a short time like the last one who learned to speak 50 words and even sentences in his year of life.

And no, I don't honestly think I did anything wrong buying a parakeet. If there was a rescue around here or if I had contact with someone who didn't want their bird anymore, I would gladly have done that. I have enough stress taking care of all my M2's, and paying $12 for a friend for the little keet to make him happy was just a practical thing to do.

IMO, these feelings about breeding need to be put in context. I can't imagine anyone making a living of breeding parakeets, in a parakeet mill, like is done with cockatoos. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me raising keets is more of a hobby and I don't think they are suffering like big birds do in that situation.

Let's take this breeding thing a bit further. We don't have any children by choice. As I look at the population booming and the number of mistreated kids reported in the news, and the children in foster care, not to mention the unwanted kids being born and given up every day. I'm all for getting on the soapbox and stopping humans. I would sooner see that than parakeets.

Just my opinion.

#93410 - 08/03/07 10:53 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


So I guess you think the people running the bird mills that supply all of the petsmart and petco facilities are doing it for the love of birds....or the love of money???

edited cause I give up

#93411 - 08/03/07 11:37 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
Could it maybe be for both reasons? Like Goosesmom's experience, it may just happen and there is a little money to be made with something you enjoy so it goes that way. BTW, that's why I got a male for a buddy.

Please don't give up, I wish you would address my comments about why parakeets may be different than cockatoos. What about fish breeding facilities, or earthworm farms? Are you against that too?

#93412 - 08/04/07 12:06 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


QUOTE

IMO, these feelings about breeding need to be put in context. I can't imagine anyone making a living of breeding parakeets, in a parakeet mill, like is done with cockatoos. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me raising keets is more of a hobby and I don't think they are suffering like big birds do in that situation
-------------------------
My answer...ALL BIRDS ARE SUFFERING.

If the breeding mills were not making money do you seriousley think they would be doing it?? I dont.

I can not give you a difference between a parakeet and a cockatoo because in my eyes I see no difference. They are both birds...being bred into captivity and living in cages when they should be flying free. NO DIFFERENCE.

one thing I have noticed in general most toos get fed better, get housed better and get more attention {FOR A WHILE} than a little boring parakeet because of the cost factor...you certianley wouldnt feed a cockatoo seeds bought in a box with the name HARTZ on the front bought at walmart
----------------------------------------

QUOTE

Let's take this breeding thing a bit further. We don't have any children by choice. As I look at the population booming and the number of mistreated kids reported in the news, and the children in foster care, not to mention the unwanted kids being born and given up every day. I'm all for getting on the soapbox and stopping humans. I would sooner see that than parakeets.

my answer....
This has NOTHING to do with what this discussion is about

------------------------------

QUOTE

What about fish breeding facilities, or earthworm farms? Are you against that too?

my answer

Are you serious???
agian this has NOTHING to do with birds.

Not once have I seen anything concerning the plight of earth worms...the abuse of worms, people throwing rocks at them, locking them in closets and putting cigerettes out on there eyes!!
so no I am not agianst earth worms or fish being bred where ever they are being bred. You are talking in circles going around the fact that you purchased a bird from a petstore knowing full well this board is COMPLETLEY agianst it. You have added to the problem instead of helping stop it.

#93413 - 08/04/07 12:25 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
Mona Offline
Lives Here
Mona  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,404
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me raising keets is more of a hobby and I don't think they are suffering like big birds do in that situation.
You're WRONG and others have already presented good arguments as to why so I won't repeat them.

Bottom line is that it's against the agenda of this board and so I won't debate the pro's of breeding, you should know that by now.

#93414 - 08/04/07 12:58 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
Every year I stir-up trouble by issuing the following disclaimer:

I would like to see all bird breeding stopped. In a perfect world, it would happen. But this isn't a perfect world....

My focus is... and will always be the big cockatoos. No other parrot suffers captivity like the big 'Toos. Many people come here because they want a parrot and are looking for advice. Many of these people cannot handle the big guys for whatever reason. They then ask if there's something more suitable for their situation.

(It's often easy to tell if a person is truly going to get a pet.. no matter what you say, and then there are people who will listen to reason IF you can offer a substitute)

When I see a person who's determined to get a bird, I always steer them towards Budgies and Cockatiels and Quakers. Naturally, I suggest they try a rescue first, but if that's just not possible.. get them where-ever they can. The point is to take the pressure off the "big guys" until we can get a handle on their issues. And as the small guys allow for captivity without destruction in most all cases, I see no alternative for the person who's determined to get one... one way or the other.

Bottom line: Bless the little guys for (hopefully) taking the pressure off the big guys in order to give them a second chance.

#93415 - 08/04/07 01:11 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


nothing like a boomerang right in the middle of things......Im off to save the worms.

#93416 - 08/04/07 01:19 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
gn18 Offline
Lives Here
gn18  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
Please see reply

--------------------
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me raising keets is more of a hobby and I don't think they are suffering like big birds do in that situation. --
---------------------

-------------------------
They may be in rescues but they don't have any of the issues cockatoos have. They adjust and can be kept in small area in total happiness, and even rehoming them is not an issue.

-----------------------------

Reply :
There are many people that raise cockatoos as hobby. Just because the person takes it as a hobby, doesn't mean its right or that cockatoos don't suffer.

Another thing, why do you think that the smaller birds do not suffer? They may not pluck as often as cockatoos or the bigger birds but do you think that they like to be 'rehomed/tossed' around from 1 person to the next, fed wrong food, kept in very small cages etc? The fact that there are so many in rescues tell us that many are not enjoying the good life. The fact that so many are in rescues also tell us that rehoming is an issue and not a nonissue like you have mentioned. (if it was a nonissue, there would be hardly any left in rescues as they are snap up when any appear for rehoming)

You mentioned that the parakeets are in rescues, have you ever considered why so many are in rescues and have you considered whether they have a good life in rescues? If human kids are in foster care (as their parents do not want/ can't care for them) and just because they don't mutilate themselves, does that mean its ok and the kids are doing well? I can't imagine anyone saying that would be fine. Just put yourself in the situation of the parakeet and being passed around countless time and possibly fed 'junk/unhealthy food' because you are cheap and it doesn't matter whether you die or not. Do you honestly want to be in that position?

--------------------------
Let's take this breeding thing a bit further. We don't have any children by choice. As I look at the population booming and the number of mistreated kids reported in the news, and the children in foster care, not to mention the unwanted kids being born and given up every day. I'm all for getting on the soapbox and stopping humans. I would sooner see that than parakeets
-------------------------------

Reply:
One thing about humans is that if we as parents don't care for our children, we can go to jail. There's laws protecting the children and punishing the negligent parent. Also, there will be a great uproar by us humans and basically hardly any people will say that its fine if the kid gets rehomed again and again or if we sell our kids to cover the cost of our expenses. Unfortunately when it comes to birds, there are hardly any laws to protect the birds and punish the negligent people. Unfortunately many people also don't feel furious and make an uproar that birds are being rehomed repetitively and people sell their birds to cover the cost of initial purchase. If they would only do so, we would have much lesser birds being rehomed.

------------------------
IMO, these feelings about breeding need to be put in context. I can't imagine anyone making a living of breeding parakeets, in a parakeet mill, like is done with cockatoos.

-----------------------

Reply:
Just because they are cheap doesn't mean breeders and pet shops do not make money out of them. What about all those dollar shops and shops selling things cheaply. They make $. They make $ by being able to sell a lot more because its cheap. For every 1 cockatoo that is sold, how many parakeets do you think they have already sold--certainly more than 1

#93417 - 08/04/07 02:15 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok...I have been giving this a lot of thought....

Jerry I mean no disrespect to you or what you said above but you got me thinking. Im sorry but I have to disagree with it.
I think that if the little guys were not so easy to get ahold of and so cheap to buy...then toss out, many UPGRADES to bird buying and keeping wouldnt be made. Most people buy the first little bird and get into it...then want a more interesting bird...then want a talking bird, then a cuddly bird. If you encourage the person that will buy regardless to get a small bird...eventually they will most definatley get a bigger one. I just dont see how encoiuraging the buying of the little birds is doing anything for cockatoos.

Like I said...Im not meaning to sound disrespectful of you or your board...I just dont get your reasoning.

Angel

#93418 - 08/04/07 02:38 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
Quote:
If you encourage the person that will buy regardless to get a small bird...eventually they will most definatley get a bigger one. I just dont see how encoiuraging the buying of the little birds is doing anything for cockatoos.
You may not see it.. but I have.. thousands of times over the last almost 10 years people have decided that a large parrot wasnt for them after talking to us... and settled for a small bird instead.

There is no banning here for legitimate opinion, even if you disagree with me. However... once our views have been known to all, I wont entertain constant argument over the issue.

#93419 - 08/04/07 02:46 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Jerry.

Thinking I may need to get more time under my belt before I understand this one. Im glad you answered though. I was starting to think I just got myself a kick out the door.

Angel

#93420 - 08/04/07 03:30 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
I understand everything that has been said but my point is...

I have only bought one of my birds...The first bird who was a cockatoo.Since then I have had 6 other birds dumped on me for many reasons.There is no rescue for birds in my area either.I have visited rescues as I was interested in starting one myself but they are at least 6 hours from home.In the last 2 weeks I have had to say no to 2 other birds and help these people place these birds in suitable homes because at 7 birds I am at my limit.So because there are no rescues does not mean there aren't birds needing help.Our lovely vet keeps pointing people our way.Thank God for friends that want birds. smile .

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93421 - 08/04/07 03:42 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 727
Cassie's_girl Offline
Lives Here
Cassie's_girl  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 727
Wisconsin, USA
I just want to point out that even though the BIRDS are cheap, the stores make plenty of money off them by selling the "starter kits" to people buying the birds. From their point of view they are a HUGE money maker, easy to breed, don't require much space, and can be easily sold with start-up kit. People are definitely more likely to rush into a purchase of a "cheap" pet than an expensive one. So, it is still about money even though the birds don't have a hefty price tag.

Also, I've often been horrified at the condition of the cages, the overcrowding, and the diets given these birds that I've seen in stores.

Having said that, I would like to say that I think the smaller birds make wonderful pets, and budgies are especially sweet. Just because they are inexpensive doesn't make them less desireable, just less expensive. JMO for what it's worth.


~ Nikki

The strongest of all warriors are these two ó Time and Patience. -Leo Tolstoy
#93422 - 08/04/07 04:09 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
Sorry, fellas, but believe it or not, size doesn't always matter!!! Right ladies???? wink


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93423 - 08/04/07 04:14 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
Quote:
So that is my point there is always a bird needing help and to me buying a bird no matter what is out of the question.
You don't know the hundreds of people who have come here over the years that simply didn't have a rescue within hundreds of miles of them. And at one point, many rescues made it almost impossible to rescue FROM. Many people became disillusioned to the whole affair and simply purchased a small bird because they wanted one that bad. These are the people I talk about.

And again... I would like to see all breeding stopped, but don't blame the breeders... blame the BUYERS! No buyers.. no breeders.. simple as that. And that's why we always attempt to go to the source here.. the BUYER.

#93424 - 08/04/07 04:14 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
Thanks EchosMom...my point excactly.Just because it is smaller does not mean the life is less valuable nor does it mean it is okay to be sold and sit in rescues either or starved for attention.I believe they are the easier to keep and care for but they too have a spot in this trade as well.

Jan

Edit sorry Jerry didn't see that post.

I agree with you it is the buyer and that is what brought this debate up was the fact that an advance member BOUGHT a bird...Parakeet or cockatoo I believe that was a slap in the face if you ask me.Very disappointing.Right.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93425 - 08/04/07 04:18 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Echos Mom....now I need to clean the coffee out of my keyboard!!! ROFLMAO!!

#93426 - 08/04/07 04:19 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
Quote:
Sorry, fellas, but believe it or not, size doesn't always matter!!! Right ladies????
This has little to do with size. It has to do with SHEER NUMBERS and the vulnerability of the larger parrots.

My mind will change once there's untold millions of large parrots in the wild just as there are small birds. This isn't an emotional issue. This is a "save the most vulnerable birds while we can" issue. Once that's taken care of... we can then focus on all the rest of the birds right down to the Budgies.

People will understand this logic, while they'll never understand the "we have to save them all" logic... because they know that sheer numbers alone of smaller birds wont make a dent in some of them being captive. People can do the math. They don't relate to the "PETA" mentality however of trying to save them all..... (except for a few die-hards) and so I prefer to plead to peoples logic instead of to their emotions.

Remember... I ALWAYS preface my comments with "I'd like to see all breeding stopped... but until that's possible... let's try to save the most vulnerable first" argument.

Example:

Let's say there were 500 large parrots left flying in the wild, and 500 MILLION cockatiels flying in the wild. Would you be as passionate about the argument?? Would you actually waste time on this message board while the big guys days were numbered? If so... you need a membership in a nuthouse instead of this messageboard.

By the way... my comments are directed towards everyone and not one or two people.

#93427 - 08/04/07 05:36 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 727
Cassie's_girl Offline
Lives Here
Cassie's_girl  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 727
Wisconsin, USA
OK, I see Jerry's point (I think), we obviously have to concentrate on the most crucial issues FIRST, in order to not overwhelm people with too large an agenda. If I'm wrong please let me know. I do think that cockatoos suffer more in captivity than many other parrots due to both their intelligence and how sensitive they seem to be to human emotion and stress. So we have to pick our battles to win the war. And by the way Jerry, thank you for caring enough to do this every day, because it does make a difference.

In some ways comparing cockatoos to budgies is apples to oranges, but I love those little birds! I've been torn for years between loving to have birds as "pets", and knowing that they were never meant to be caged. As Jan said though, birds needing homes keep finding me, I have also turned a few away, because I need to be sure I can provide a good home to the ones I have. But I have helped find homes for, and worked with the ones I couldn't take. And I will never buy another bird, for any reason. But I WILL always tell people to find a rescue, or at very least a re-home when they are looking for any size bird. There are budgies and cockatiels people have gotten tired of in the paper every week here, and I don't live in a very large community.

BTW - Echo'smom, <img border="0" alt="[laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh[1].gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh[1].gif" /> way to break the tension a little -and very well said! <img border="0" alt="[laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh[1].gif" />


~ Nikki

The strongest of all warriors are these two ó Time and Patience. -Leo Tolstoy
#93428 - 08/04/07 06:14 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
Quote:
we obviously have to concentrate on the most crucial issues FIRST, in order to not overwhelm people with too large an agenda. If I'm wrong please let me know. I do think that cockatoos suffer more in captivity than many other parrots due to both their intelligence and how sensitive they seem to be to human emotion and stress. So we have to pick our battles to win the war.
I couldnt (and didn't) have said it better.

#93429 - 08/04/07 07:53 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
Quote:
BTW - Echo'smom, way to break the tension a little -and very well said!
Hey a little levitity never hurts. wink

In seriousness though, the opposing side presents a good argument. BUT I cannot/refuse to embrace the "sacrificial lamb" philosophy. I think it's wrong.

Wikipedia:
Quote:
A sacrificial lamb refers to a lamb (or metaphorical parallel) killed or discounted in some way (as in a sacrifice) in order to further some other cause.
Quote:
Example:

Let's say there were 500 large parrots left flying in the wild, and 500 MILLION cockatiels flying in the wild. Would you be as passionate about the argument??
Ask me when/if that happens. wink

Quote:
Would you actually waste time on this message board while the big guys days were numbered?
If I thought it would make a difference - YES!

(Edited to include last 2 paragraphs after thinking some more after I posted). Sorry...


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93430 - 08/04/07 01:43 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
As mentioned many times before, even some of the big guys will have to be sacrificed before it's all over. I'm talking about "pity purchases" here. That's when you walk into a pet shop and see some pitiful cockatoo slowly dying of neglect and your emotions cry out to save it. If money exchanges hands, you're only making the problem worse. As long as the bird moves through the system of CASH.. it will be replaced by another pitiful parrot. You will have help to make it happen. And so yes, in this world of sacrificing for this and that... (everybody you know sacrifices SOMETHING)... you must use your head instead of your emotions to help solve the problem.

I'm willing to sacrifice my beloved birds, and I would hope that you would yours too, if it justifies the outcome.

#93431 - 08/04/07 06:00 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
I do agree with you Jerry in the overall theory that if we can convince those ignorant or indifferent to the plight of captive bred birds to get that budgie instead of a cockatoo, it is the lesser of two evils. And I am with you all the way on pity purchases.

But, in this particular instance the OP is neither ignorant nor indifferent and a cockatoo was not saved.

You are so right, each of us has to help make it happen.

As Jane Goodall said:
Quote:
Only if we understand can we care. Only if we care will we help. Only if we help shall they be saved.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93432 - 08/04/07 08:15 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have spent the last 3 years learning where I fit in in the bird community, searching my very soul for the truth. Ive sat many hours quietly reading this baord, soaking in everyones arguments and now I believe 100 percent what the memebers of this board fight for every day!!!! I am ready to fight for the birds, I am ready to defend the birds and Im ready to give everything that I am to rescuing one parrot at a time, do my part, even if it is a small part. I finally jump in and defend what EVERYONE HERE HAS TAUGHT ME......and got shot down by the owner of mytoos. While I sorta understand where you are comming from, and I agree if we can talk someone into ADOPTING a smaller bird instead of a cockatoo I have to say that has nothing to do with what this topic started out as. Im sitting here wondering if someone is sitting in the shadows quietly reading, soul searching, trying to find there spot in the bird world and how they are feeling about this thread.
I hope I made sence here.
At this point I am going back to my quiet little corner and keeping what I believe to myself.

Angel

#93433 - 08/04/07 08:49 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,154
Charlie Offline
Admin
Charlie  Offline

Admin
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,154
Covington, LA USA
Angel, you fit in fine here. This site is not a cookie cutter mold. Hopefully, we all are intelligent and compassionate enough to be able to see the "sides" of this discussion. In my heart, I agree with you and, I'm sure, many more members do.

If someone became interested in and researched long distance running and found it fascinating and decided that it would be a wonderful way to a healthier lifestyle and to enjoy nature, they would not go out and run a marathon. I doubt one percent of the population could actually start like that. No, we would set bite size goals and revel in the accomplishment of meeting each one with the main goal, the marathon, always in sight. A good portion of the population will never get there but it doesn't stop the satisfaction of meeting lesser goals along the way.

We are helping birds every day by advancing education about them. We can set our own goals in our own hearts and minds and be very happy with meeting each one. No one can take your accomplishments from you. It is important to always realize the magnitude of what "we would like to accomplish" and be satisfied along the way with our own progress. It has been said many, many times on this board that "this will not happen in my lifetime" and that is the sad truth so it does no harm to the general mission to state more achievable goals along the way. A bite that must be taken on the way to eating the whole thing! smile

I know it doesn't diminish my goals at all. Stick around!

#93434 - 08/04/07 09:20 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Jerry Offline
Founder
Jerry  Offline
Founder
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,398
Ohio Valley
I helped to take this issue completely off topic as you can see. But I had to step-in and let people know how I personally feel about the conversation as it was progressing towards this very touchy subject. I wince each time I see Mytoos equated with trying to save the entire bird world, when the truth is that we have an uphill battle and our hands completely full just trying to save one species. If YOU can save the entire bird world, my hat's certainly off to you.

#93435 - 08/04/07 10:16 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ill do my best....one at a time.

#93436 - 08/04/07 11:22 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
Angel please don't sit quietly in the corner.I happen to like your posts allot and it would be a shame.

IMO Jerry is being quite logical and realistic.It is the cockatoos that suffer so much in captivity...so to save the cockatoo we have to focus on the cockatoo.Once we hit that goal then try for the others.It doesn't mean they don't matter or they aren't suffering as well but to climb a ladder we take it one step at a time...we can't get to the top any other way.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93437 - 08/05/07 01:38 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
Angel this is a multi-faceted topic with multi-faceted opinions. And just because there are those that feel differently, an see the solution/s differently, it doesn't make us on different sides.

There are valid arguments on both sides, and I think that to refuse to listen, or refuse to be heard resolves nothing. We still won't all agree, but avian welfare as a group will accomplish nothing if *we* (any one of us) stop talking about it. I too hope you stay and
continue to let your voice be heard.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93438 - 08/05/07 02:41 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im ok now...I just got real confused...I was still listening, just confused.

I dont think I have the ability to be quiet now that I started. LMAO

I just caught completley off guard is all....I get it, I just wasnt expecting it. Thanks everyone.

Jerry...I didnt mean to blow this out of proportion...I just wasnt understanding.

Angel

#93439 - 08/05/07 03:17 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
Thanks Angel wink

You really are a valuable member here.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93440 - 08/05/07 04:17 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Chewy Offline
Lives Here
Chewy  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Washington
Angel I understand where you are coming from on the smaller birds. I don't quite understand the cockatoo world yet. I have just been introduced to it, slowly by friends cockatoos and Chewy.
I have 2 smaller birds that I love to death and will never let them go.
But Jerry I also understand where you are coming from. You made this site to be devoted to the Cockatoos and you did a wonderful job, and still are doing a wonderful job.
I am still learning what it means to be a part of this world, and I don't know my place either at times. I don't feel like I have enough knowledge to give anyone advice, except not to buy from bird stores, so I don't know where to be in the bird world.
Sorry I am rambling I will quit now. Thank you for reading it.


look to your birds for love
Chewy RB2
Lightning-parakeet
Zeus-zebra finch
RIP
Eli
little foot Cockatiels
#93441 - 08/05/07 08:23 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
gn18 Offline
Lives Here
gn18  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
M2bb,

I'm happy that you are still here as I enjoy your posts and your willingness to contribute on these touchy topics.

As for Jerry and Echosmom dialogue, I actually enjoyed their intelligence, abilitity to see the whole picture and wholeheartedly agree with their views. I couldn't have said it better myself with regards to Echosmom last reply to Jerry. Very well said.

#93442 - 08/05/07 08:30 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh goodness...Id never leave, I have way to much more to learn!!! There are so many people here I enjoy learning from and with....I cant leave. I just thought maybe I should take a step back and just read more. This topic has been a serious learning experiance...thats for sure.

Im happy that I didnt get booted when I disagreed and I am also happy several people stepped in and explained it differentally. I still dont agree....but I do understand the point made.

Angel

#93443 - 08/05/07 08:43 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
gn18 Offline
Lives Here
gn18  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
Its up to you whether you feel you need to take a step back and countinue reading or just continue what you have been doing all along. I think that you are doing just fine right now. smile

#93444 - 08/05/07 11:03 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,425
wishfull Offline
Lives Here
wishfull  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,425
england uk
Cages and wings dont mix. Be it a cockatoo, or a finch. Cages and wings mix like polar bears and kennels.


If you can't see the bright side of life, polish the dull side.
#93445 - 08/07/07 03:30 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
OK, I'm back. The direction of this thread from the very beginning has totally taken me by back a few steps. I am referred to as an advanced member who has apparently shocked the mytoos community. I don't know how I came to be that, but my involvement here is because of cockatoos, not parakeets.

I posted about the little keets because after living with cockatoos for over 25 years, I am thrilled to see totally content and happy birds for a change. I honestly thought others might share my happiness.

Maybe my experience with the keets in unusual. I'm sure there are some little birds out there living in miserable conditions. But does that cause them to pluck their feathers? Do they have the mental capacity to realize their plight? Some have discounted taking other animals into this discussion, but is a goldfish miserable in it's single gallon of water or less? IMO, they don't have the mental capacity to realize things like that, hence I don't think they suffer the same mental anguish those with bigger brains do.

This is a complicated world. I have to choose my battles. My 5 cockatoos don't give me a choice on some of those. My choice to make a little keet who faced certain death a second chance and to give him a buddy to enjoy it with is one I am totally comfortable with in spite of the comments here.

I am curious about something. This strong antibreeding stance on things with feathers, how do you feel about chickens?

#93446 - 08/07/07 03:43 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered



#93447 - 08/07/07 04:16 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
Quote:
This strong antibreeding stance on things with feathers, how do you feel about chickens?
I'm not going to be drawn into a conversation comparing chickens to psittacines.

I've stated my position, as you have yours. It's time to agree to disagee.

And I do agree with you that they are delightful little parrots!! wink


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93448 - 08/07/07 05:22 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Chewy Offline
Lives Here
Chewy  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Washington
--------------------------------------------------- quote
I'm willing to sacrifice my beloved birds, and I would hope that you would yours too, if it justifies the outcome.
----------------------------------------------------
I don't really know how to quote so I hope this works.
What do you mean when you say sacrifice them? When I think sacrifice them I think of killing them. Which I won't do and I know you wouldn't be asking us to do that, but I just wanted to know what you meant by that.


look to your birds for love
Chewy RB2
Lightning-parakeet
Zeus-zebra finch
RIP
Eli
little foot Cockatiels
#93449 - 08/07/07 05:24 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
I'm not trying to draw anyone into a conversation they don't want to be in. I am just curious. I am an animal lover to the extreme, and honestly I can't understand the difference. I'm not looking for an argument, but I would really like to be enlightened as to why you think it's different.

#93450 - 08/07/07 06:14 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Garnet Offline
Member
Garnet  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Edmonton
Quote:
Maybe my experience with the keets in unusual. I'm sure there are some little birds out there living in miserable conditions. But does that cause them to pluck their feathers? Do they have the mental capacity to realize their plight? Some have discounted taking other animals into this discussion, but is a goldfish miserable in it's single gallon of water or less? IMO, they don't have the mental capacity to realize things like that, hence I don't think they suffer the same mental anguish those with bigger brains do.
Feather plucking is quite rare in cockatiels and budgies and when it occurs, it's often due to Giardia. These two species are more or less domesticated, so they do cope with captivity better than the bigger parrots do. It sounds like the two you are caring for are content since they are paired up and have a fair amount of room. That's nice; unfortunately, since they're cheap, a lot of people don't put enough effort into caring for their budgies properly. Too many people keep them alone in tiny cages.

However, budgies are smarter than most people give them credit for. An animal's cognitive abilities have more to do with its brain size: body size ratio than simply brain size alone. Budgies have fairly large brains for their size. A mistreated budgie has all the neural machinery needed to feel pain. So does any other bird. They don't need quite the level of care cockatoos do though, since they're smaller and often get along with other birds (and are easier to pair up with a birdy buddie).

I guess the difference between budgies and some of the bigger parrots is that budgies can be content given some flight space, a human or birdie friend, some toys and a healthy diet. A cockatoo, Eclectus, or African grey given adequate care will still sometimes develop abnormal behaviors like biting, feather plucking, constant screeching or stereotypic pacing.

Edit: Some small parrots do feather pluck as well. I've seen it in parrotlets and the little Pyrrhura conures.

#93451 - 08/07/07 10:24 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 68
Bev Offline
Member
Bev  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 68
Indiana
I have 2 little rescued budgies, Zeke and Lola..except I think Lola should be called Lloyd smile

They are wonderful little farts who are extremely smart. They have been in my life for a year now and I am still learning about them and being constantly amazed at how intelegent they really are. When they want to come out to free fly they will hang on the door of their cage until I see them. They love to visit the cockatiels and our little lovebird. They know to steer clear of our M2's house (which is 36 x 45 x 72, or somewhere close to that). because he gets annoyed when they do their flybys.

I am finally getting the trust from them that I have hoped for after 1 year I remind you of trying. I can finally pick them up and get only a soft nip instead of blood being drawn. I don't think they were ever really loved and cared for. I think that before they must have been just decoration.

Ok, maybe I'm not hitting the feel of this post, but in my heart and for the sake of Zeke and Lola I hope I've gotten through to someone, anyone. They are individuals, they are special, and they crave love, handling, interation, attention just like my M2 Poncho who is looking intently at my fingers on the keyboard and wondering what this is all about.

To all, have a wonderful day. Bev

#93452 - 08/08/07 03:47 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
I hope no one gets the idea I think parakeets are not intelligent. Our first bird was a keet named Cheswick that was given to us as a baby. He lived with us only a year before his demise.

He had a 1' diameter cage about 18 inches tall. It was open anytime we were home, and he was out with us. He would disappear about 10 pm and go to bed by himself, the door was always open. About 6:30 am we would hear a flutter down the hallway and he would arrive on our bed. He would mess around by my ear until I got up.

In his short life, he learned 50 words, groups of words and sentences. He could pick it up in a few days. An amazing little bird.

After living with cockatoos so long and being bit hard too many times to count, when a keet tries to bite I just look at them and chuckle.

#93453 - 08/08/07 11:02 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
gn18 Offline
Lives Here
gn18  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 549
-------------------------
..... The direction of this thread from the very beginning has totally taken me by back a few steps. I am referred to as an advanced member who has apparently shocked the mytoos community. I don't know how I came to be that, but my involvement here is because of cockatoos, not parakeets.
----------------------

--------------
I'm not trying to draw anyone into a conversation they don't want to be in. I am just curious. I am an animal lover to the extreme, and honestly I can't understand the difference. I'm not looking for an argument, but I would really like to be enlightened as to why you think it's different
----------------------

Ike n Monica
You have been a member here for many years (judging from your member #), during this time, there has been at least a couple of mentions that we do not agree on buying/breeding psittacines and not just cockatoos and some of these were mentioned in the cockatoo section. Perhaps you missed these posts/read infrequently and hence am surprised when people are taken aback with your thread. (Being a member for many years and an advanced member too, it is only natural for people to assume that one will be familiar with mytoos stance, hence us being shocked). If you really want to be enlightened, maybe you will be interested in reading more of the message board here and do searches since it has already been mentioned numerous times.

#93454 - 08/08/07 03:03 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 317
Kyrie Offline
Member
Kyrie  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 317
In my humble opinion, this thread is ridiculous. There are many more important atrocities going on in the world of captive parrots, (especially cockatoos!) than an established guardian of 5 cockatoos purchasing a parakeet to keep her parakeet company. This member shouldn't have to keep defending herself. Good grief folks, move on.

Parakeets are great, shouldn't suffer, shouldn't be bred for profit, shouldn't be sold to uneducated persons with insufficient cages, perches and toys, and shouldn't be deprived of veterinary care when needed. But it happens a thousand times a day in every city in this country. Some are even marked down or "put on sale" to a price so low that snake owners buy them as a novelty for feeders. I'd rather see one get a home with Ike and Monica.

Choose your battles wisely.

#93455 - 08/08/07 06:24 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
"Ike n Monica
You have been a member here for many years (judging from your member #), during this time, there has been at least a couple of mentions that we do not agree on buying/breeding psittacines and not just cockatoos and some of these were mentioned in the cockatoo section. Perhaps you missed these posts/read infrequently and hence am surprised when people are taken aback with your thread. (Being a member for many years and an advanced member too, it is only natural for people to assume that one will be familiar with mytoos stance, hence us being shocked). If you really want to be enlightened, maybe you will be interested in reading more of the message board here and do searches since it has already been mentioned numerous times. "

I just went back to the section at the beginning of this forum entitled "Who we are and what is our agenda?". It mentions parrots but the word psittacine is not mentioned. There are widely varied opinions in this world and some persons agendas are more spread out than others. I do not consider parakeets to be a parrot. I guess some do. I am here specifically for the plight of cockatoos and having lived with them for 26 years I feel I have insight others may not have. My love of cockatoos and the specific agenda of this board will keep me here even if some don't share my opinions beyond parrots.

I do know this, that I have a couple of happy keets whose time on this earth is limited and if I can give them a good home that makes me happy. FYI, we picked out a bird that wasn't as pretty and desirable as the others just because we thought he might be the last left in the cage.

And thank you Kyrie. Exactly my thoughts as this thread progressed. Especially the choosing your battles part. If I had known what you just said about snakes and seen the keets marked down, I may have bought the whole cage full. As it was, when we first decided it might be nice to have a friend for our little refugee, and saw a cage full at the feed store, just a few days lapsed when we went back to get one. They were all gone. Later we saw some at another feed store and again, they went fast as well. They make nice little pets, but the price unfortunately makes them disposable to people whose hearts are not quite as big as mine. The battle against breeding cockatoos IMO is very possible to win, but the battle against keets no way.

#93456 - 08/08/07 07:28 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Garnet Offline
Member
Garnet  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Edmonton
A nitpicky point, but scientifically, budgies are parrots. They're in the family Psittacidae. They are domesticated, unlike the rest of the parrot family (except cockatiels), but they're parrots all the same. "Parakeets" are simply parrots with long tails.

At any rate, it sounds like the budgie you picked out got lucky, and will have a very nice life. smile

#93457 - 08/10/07 03:34 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,134
Florida, USA
I agree Kyrie
Quote:
Choose your battles wisely.
wink


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93458 - 08/15/07 05:46 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 667
Bokka-pooh Offline
Lives Here
Bokka-pooh  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 667
WA, USA
Quote:
They are so easy to care for. I can't think of any type of pet that's easier except a maybe a fish. Because of that I don't see a big issue with parakeets being bred.
Well thery are easily replaced and well they are the LEAST type of birds I recommend besides cockatoos to be bred. I fo rone say NO NO HELL NO to breeding birds for the common person, or even for captibvity. I for one have different opinions for releasing into the wild. But then again, its mas fault we have to imprison and force conditions on birds to breed them to repopulate birds, its humans faults we even have to do that sadly. And not only parrots but funches. If only parrot owners new of the intelligence and the smarts of a finch... or a softbill... I understand finches and softbills more as I rehab and release them and have raised them in the past, and if only other birds owners new how they felt... they feel just the same as a cockatoo if treated wrong... they just dont show it as well because in their blood its tells them to hide any trace of stress and anxiety or they are easy prey for their predators.

My Umbies cage is 3ft long 28" wide and 4 and half feet tall. And guess what he is out all day. I (when we moved) finally got him to sleeping in this cage. He is out of it all day. Rarely uses it, either with me, or on the floor with toys or on play stands chewing away, he is mainly with me. I dont cage him.

And if yours never lived a year I see why. They DO NOT happily liv ein small cages NORe do they only live a year to 5 years I know people who have 22 y.o parakeet and someone who has a 25 y.o parakeet and they are as young as ever. And no I am not talking about any other parakeet but an AUSSIE BUDGIES aka American parakeet. My budgies THRIVE in flying and they LOVE attention and no small cgae, and rehoming would do for them.

WHy would yo ubuy from someone who purchased their srtock from, a mill. Thats factory farming for you. Why support the abuse? You know how much casualties their are in these mills? A LOT. A lot of imbred and illnesses. I would not recommened it. I have in the past, but I do not brag about it any longer.. as I know better and I am only 17. I have had birds for 5 years now anmd had bird sin my life for my life and now that I am almost an adult I am proud to say I know things smile (Why I am also Vegan too)

I fo rone think its harder to entertain a bidgies than a cockatoo thats from MY EXPERIENCE. LOL. My Umbie, Bokka, gosh he (ok.. maybe I shouldnt say this) has turned out great from being a rotten no one loves me monster to a perfect lap persian cat. lol. Or.. puppy-cat. My budgies are so hard to please. I see dissapointment in their eyes when they dont get what they want. ESPECIALYL with my house sparrow Sapphire who is 5 and Myko my Starling. I see thier reactions and how they feels more than my umbies. And their opinions seems to be furhter expressed than a parrots. Perhaps thats because I too live with smallers birds FIRST and understand them before the larger birds.

I for one say if you buy anything of animal products either it be eggs, meat, fur, or even pets in pet stores you are supporting Animal Abuse. Anything tested on animals goes for this too.

This is why I buy ALL Organics, and I LOVE the Earth (Tree Hugger) and believe all life should be able to live HAPPILY. Not how wqe feels is happy, but how they feel is happy and how its meant to. That said. just because you people THINK they can live happily in small aquariums or cages doesnt mean its so. These birds fly miles and miles and these fish swim in gallons f GALLONS og water up stream down stream in the ocean deeper deeper, flying high, fritting through trees, and usa people think a few toys and a couple perches and feed will do fo rthem, or a 5 wall glass tank with 1 plant and pebbles is good enough? R-ight... I for one COULD live in a one bedroomo aparttment for life without going outside, I COULD, but I wont because I wont be happy.

my 2 cents;;

*Mercedez
*Bokka

#258400 - 05/07/15 08:19 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Ike 'n Monica Offline
Member
Ike 'n Monica  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 120
Central California
I can hardly believe it's been about 8 years since I started this thread. When we first took in the little keet and then got him a friend, we were amazed at how they enjoyed being in their cage even though they could get out anytime they wanted. Since then, the original keet died, and with our big hearts we got another friend for his friend. And then the original keet's friend died after living for a week or so after having a stroke, we got another one to keep him company. I know this offends some here but seeing how short their lives can be, we feel it's a non issue compared to cockatoos. We now have a male and female and they act the same in the big cage as the other 2 did. It's their sanctuary, and when we clean the cage, they step out between the bars, and get back in when we are done. They once in a while will make a lap around the living room, but other than that they obviously enjoy their home.

I lost interest in this forum after this thread went the way it did and haven't even been here for many years. FYI, we still have all 5 of our cockatoos, and survived a situation with one about 5 years ago when he decided to remove some skin from his neck, We had to put a custom collar made out of a plastic water bottle and an old sock on him until he healed, and have had to do it a couple more times since then, But it has been over 2 years now since he messed with it so we just cross our fingers.

Being almost 61 and my wife almost 57, we just dread the thought that they might outlive us and it continues to be a stress which has no relief.

After seeing a program on PBS tonight called Parrot Confidential it made me think about this site so I logged in. That is such an excellent program and really shows the emotional attachment many of us have to these complex birds.

#258402 - 05/07/15 01:22 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
I watched the show last night also. The strongest message that I got from the show was that parrots do not belong in captivity. Visiting the sanctuaries is a heartbreaking experience. It's wonderful to see the birds being so well cared for by those that have dedicated their lives to them. When you walk around and see the hundreds of birds there of all species it makes you realize what we are doing and it's not good. From the small to the large they are turned over, let loose, sold or abandoned by the very people who bought them seeing them as so cute.

Last edited by BE2Cassie; 05/07/15 01:31 PM.

Nancy & Cassie BE2
#258404 - 05/08/15 03:25 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
Chucki's Dad Offline
Lives Here
Chucki's Dad  Offline
Lives Here
****

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
NW Ohio
My wife and I visited a rescue last week with the thought of replacing our Pionus by adopting from this organization. I had the opportunity to meet Fegan the African Grey that was shown in the Parrot Confidential. He is doing pretty well all things considered but still on some meds I believe.

So sad that the people who had him were thinking they were doing the best they could for him but in reality nowhere meeting his needs. Plus the 25 years of heavy smoking he was exposed to.

Not sure if they would adopt him out but he is the only one of the ones we looked at that even acknowledged my presence.

I took Chucki in for her yearly checkup this week and talked to the vet about the birds I had seen at the rescue as she is the rescue's vet and familiar with most of them. She advised he will never be mentally normal.


Mark and Chucki (FMM2)
#258405 - 05/08/15 05:04 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 746
bellesmom Offline
Lives Here
bellesmom  Offline
Lives Here
***

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 746
I know people mean well but purchasing birds from a store or some online place or individual selling a bird just keeps the problem of homeless, brokenhearted birds going. Rescues are overflowing with wonderful birds of all shapes and sizes that dream of a home and someone to love them. You can see it in their little faces, it literally breaks my heart. Mark, Ive seen those birds, they are so broken and have lost hope. Comparing them to human children that are abused and neglected is not acceptable. Both situations are bad and one does not support the other. One of the rescues I went to has alot of budgies and I have a large empty cage and I was thinking of getting them, yes driving 4 hours for budgies because their lives are worth something.


#258407 - 05/08/15 02:02 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
Mark what was the name of that rescue? I would like to contact them to get information on the collar that they were using with Fegan.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#258411 - 05/09/15 03:05 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
Chucki's Dad Offline
Lives Here
Chucki's Dad  Offline
Lives Here
****

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
NW Ohio
Nancy

Feathered Friends of Michigan f f o m dot n e t Take out the spaces. I spelled out their website address to avoid the web bots and other intruders. Her name is Marie I saw a similar collar on the shelf at the vets office the other day. Don't know if she gets them from the vet or gets them for the vet. She responds pretty quickly to emails during the week but works weekends so may not answer till early in the week.


Bellsmom

So true. This rescue has a couple budgies. The thought of adopting these actually crossed my mind as they are cheerfull little guys.


Mark and Chucki (FMM2)
#258412 - 05/09/15 03:25 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
Thank you Mark I know of a bird that may benefit from that design.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#258453 - 05/20/15 12:52 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
Chucki's Dad Offline
Lives Here
Chucki's Dad  Offline
Lives Here
****

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
NW Ohio
Nancy, did you ever get a response? I sent her an email with some questions about one of her birds we are considering adopting. I found out today that she doesn't routinely check her email (why have it?) Anyway, I had to take Chucki back to the vet for a recheck and she came in while we were leaving. I have her cell number and she says she does answer text messages.


Mark and Chucki (FMM2)
#258454 - 05/20/15 12:19 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
Mark I haven't sent her an email. I searched through the site and found out it was made by Protective Parrot Petals by Pam https://www.facebook.com/ProtectiveParrotPetalsByPam


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#258455 - 05/20/15 10:47 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
Chucki's Dad Offline
Lives Here
Chucki's Dad  Offline
Lives Here
****

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 825
NW Ohio
Okay, happy you were able to find what you were looking for on her website. I checked out your link and this design seems like this would be much more tolerable than some designs available.

I do have her cell number now and she claims to always answer texts.


Mark and Chucki (FMM2)
#258456 - 05/21/15 01:34 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage [Re: Ike 'n Monica]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,716
Wrentham, MA
Thanks Mark, appreciate your help. This bird and her owner are due to come back to the clinic in a couple of weeks. I'm going to pass the info on to her at that time.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  BE2Cassie, Beeps, EchosMom, Janny 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.066s Queries: 14 (0.008s) Memory: 5.6948 MB (Peak: 6.3804 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-05-23 09:07:05 UTC