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#93437 - 08/05/07 01:38 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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EchosMom Offline
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Angel this is a multi-faceted topic with multi-faceted opinions. And just because there are those that feel differently, an see the solution/s differently, it doesn't make us on different sides.

There are valid arguments on both sides, and I think that to refuse to listen, or refuse to be heard resolves nothing. We still won't all agree, but avian welfare as a group will accomplish nothing if *we* (any one of us) stop talking about it. I too hope you stay and
continue to let your voice be heard.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93438 - 08/05/07 02:41 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

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Im ok now...I just got real confused...I was still listening, just confused.

I dont think I have the ability to be quiet now that I started. LMAO

I just caught completley off guard is all....I get it, I just wasnt expecting it. Thanks everyone.

Jerry...I didnt mean to blow this out of proportion...I just wasnt understanding.

Angel

#93439 - 08/05/07 03:17 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Thanks Angel wink

You really are a valuable member here.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#93440 - 08/05/07 04:17 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Angel I understand where you are coming from on the smaller birds. I don't quite understand the cockatoo world yet. I have just been introduced to it, slowly by friends cockatoos and Chewy.
I have 2 smaller birds that I love to death and will never let them go.
But Jerry I also understand where you are coming from. You made this site to be devoted to the Cockatoos and you did a wonderful job, and still are doing a wonderful job.
I am still learning what it means to be a part of this world, and I don't know my place either at times. I don't feel like I have enough knowledge to give anyone advice, except not to buy from bird stores, so I don't know where to be in the bird world.
Sorry I am rambling I will quit now. Thank you for reading it.


look to your birds for love
Chewy RB2
Lightning-parakeet
Zeus-zebra finch
RIP
Eli
little foot Cockatiels
#93441 - 08/05/07 08:23 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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M2bb,

I'm happy that you are still here as I enjoy your posts and your willingness to contribute on these touchy topics.

As for Jerry and Echosmom dialogue, I actually enjoyed their intelligence, abilitity to see the whole picture and wholeheartedly agree with their views. I couldn't have said it better myself with regards to Echosmom last reply to Jerry. Very well said.

#93442 - 08/05/07 08:30 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

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Oh goodness...Id never leave, I have way to much more to learn!!! There are so many people here I enjoy learning from and with....I cant leave. I just thought maybe I should take a step back and just read more. This topic has been a serious learning experiance...thats for sure.

Im happy that I didnt get booted when I disagreed and I am also happy several people stepped in and explained it differentally. I still dont agree....but I do understand the point made.

Angel

#93443 - 08/05/07 08:43 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Its up to you whether you feel you need to take a step back and countinue reading or just continue what you have been doing all along. I think that you are doing just fine right now. smile

#93444 - 08/05/07 11:03 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Cages and wings dont mix. Be it a cockatoo, or a finch. Cages and wings mix like polar bears and kennels.


If you can't see the bright side of life, polish the dull side.
#93445 - 08/07/07 03:30 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Ike 'n Monica Offline
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OK, I'm back. The direction of this thread from the very beginning has totally taken me by back a few steps. I am referred to as an advanced member who has apparently shocked the mytoos community. I don't know how I came to be that, but my involvement here is because of cockatoos, not parakeets.

I posted about the little keets because after living with cockatoos for over 25 years, I am thrilled to see totally content and happy birds for a change. I honestly thought others might share my happiness.

Maybe my experience with the keets in unusual. I'm sure there are some little birds out there living in miserable conditions. But does that cause them to pluck their feathers? Do they have the mental capacity to realize their plight? Some have discounted taking other animals into this discussion, but is a goldfish miserable in it's single gallon of water or less? IMO, they don't have the mental capacity to realize things like that, hence I don't think they suffer the same mental anguish those with bigger brains do.

This is a complicated world. I have to choose my battles. My 5 cockatoos don't give me a choice on some of those. My choice to make a little keet who faced certain death a second chance and to give him a buddy to enjoy it with is one I am totally comfortable with in spite of the comments here.

I am curious about something. This strong antibreeding stance on things with feathers, how do you feel about chickens?

#93446 - 08/07/07 03:43 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  

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#93447 - 08/07/07 04:16 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Quote:
This strong antibreeding stance on things with feathers, how do you feel about chickens?
I'm not going to be drawn into a conversation comparing chickens to psittacines.

I've stated my position, as you have yours. It's time to agree to disagee.

And I do agree with you that they are delightful little parrots!! wink


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#93448 - 08/07/07 05:22 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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--------------------------------------------------- quote
I'm willing to sacrifice my beloved birds, and I would hope that you would yours too, if it justifies the outcome.
----------------------------------------------------
I don't really know how to quote so I hope this works.
What do you mean when you say sacrifice them? When I think sacrifice them I think of killing them. Which I won't do and I know you wouldn't be asking us to do that, but I just wanted to know what you meant by that.


look to your birds for love
Chewy RB2
Lightning-parakeet
Zeus-zebra finch
RIP
Eli
little foot Cockatiels
#93449 - 08/07/07 05:24 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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I'm not trying to draw anyone into a conversation they don't want to be in. I am just curious. I am an animal lover to the extreme, and honestly I can't understand the difference. I'm not looking for an argument, but I would really like to be enlightened as to why you think it's different.

#93450 - 08/07/07 06:14 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Quote:
Maybe my experience with the keets in unusual. I'm sure there are some little birds out there living in miserable conditions. But does that cause them to pluck their feathers? Do they have the mental capacity to realize their plight? Some have discounted taking other animals into this discussion, but is a goldfish miserable in it's single gallon of water or less? IMO, they don't have the mental capacity to realize things like that, hence I don't think they suffer the same mental anguish those with bigger brains do.
Feather plucking is quite rare in cockatiels and budgies and when it occurs, it's often due to Giardia. These two species are more or less domesticated, so they do cope with captivity better than the bigger parrots do. It sounds like the two you are caring for are content since they are paired up and have a fair amount of room. That's nice; unfortunately, since they're cheap, a lot of people don't put enough effort into caring for their budgies properly. Too many people keep them alone in tiny cages.

However, budgies are smarter than most people give them credit for. An animal's cognitive abilities have more to do with its brain size: body size ratio than simply brain size alone. Budgies have fairly large brains for their size. A mistreated budgie has all the neural machinery needed to feel pain. So does any other bird. They don't need quite the level of care cockatoos do though, since they're smaller and often get along with other birds (and are easier to pair up with a birdy buddie).

I guess the difference between budgies and some of the bigger parrots is that budgies can be content given some flight space, a human or birdie friend, some toys and a healthy diet. A cockatoo, Eclectus, or African grey given adequate care will still sometimes develop abnormal behaviors like biting, feather plucking, constant screeching or stereotypic pacing.

Edit: Some small parrots do feather pluck as well. I've seen it in parrotlets and the little Pyrrhura conures.

#93451 - 08/07/07 10:24 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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I have 2 little rescued budgies, Zeke and Lola..except I think Lola should be called Lloyd smile

They are wonderful little farts who are extremely smart. They have been in my life for a year now and I am still learning about them and being constantly amazed at how intelegent they really are. When they want to come out to free fly they will hang on the door of their cage until I see them. They love to visit the cockatiels and our little lovebird. They know to steer clear of our M2's house (which is 36 x 45 x 72, or somewhere close to that). because he gets annoyed when they do their flybys.

I am finally getting the trust from them that I have hoped for after 1 year I remind you of trying. I can finally pick them up and get only a soft nip instead of blood being drawn. I don't think they were ever really loved and cared for. I think that before they must have been just decoration.

Ok, maybe I'm not hitting the feel of this post, but in my heart and for the sake of Zeke and Lola I hope I've gotten through to someone, anyone. They are individuals, they are special, and they crave love, handling, interation, attention just like my M2 Poncho who is looking intently at my fingers on the keyboard and wondering what this is all about.

To all, have a wonderful day. Bev

#93452 - 08/08/07 03:47 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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I hope no one gets the idea I think parakeets are not intelligent. Our first bird was a keet named Cheswick that was given to us as a baby. He lived with us only a year before his demise.

He had a 1' diameter cage about 18 inches tall. It was open anytime we were home, and he was out with us. He would disappear about 10 pm and go to bed by himself, the door was always open. About 6:30 am we would hear a flutter down the hallway and he would arrive on our bed. He would mess around by my ear until I got up.

In his short life, he learned 50 words, groups of words and sentences. He could pick it up in a few days. An amazing little bird.

After living with cockatoos so long and being bit hard too many times to count, when a keet tries to bite I just look at them and chuckle.

#93453 - 08/08/07 11:02 AM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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-------------------------
..... The direction of this thread from the very beginning has totally taken me by back a few steps. I am referred to as an advanced member who has apparently shocked the mytoos community. I don't know how I came to be that, but my involvement here is because of cockatoos, not parakeets.
----------------------

--------------
I'm not trying to draw anyone into a conversation they don't want to be in. I am just curious. I am an animal lover to the extreme, and honestly I can't understand the difference. I'm not looking for an argument, but I would really like to be enlightened as to why you think it's different
----------------------

Ike n Monica
You have been a member here for many years (judging from your member #), during this time, there has been at least a couple of mentions that we do not agree on buying/breeding psittacines and not just cockatoos and some of these were mentioned in the cockatoo section. Perhaps you missed these posts/read infrequently and hence am surprised when people are taken aback with your thread. (Being a member for many years and an advanced member too, it is only natural for people to assume that one will be familiar with mytoos stance, hence us being shocked). If you really want to be enlightened, maybe you will be interested in reading more of the message board here and do searches since it has already been mentioned numerous times.

#93454 - 08/08/07 03:03 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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In my humble opinion, this thread is ridiculous. There are many more important atrocities going on in the world of captive parrots, (especially cockatoos!) than an established guardian of 5 cockatoos purchasing a parakeet to keep her parakeet company. This member shouldn't have to keep defending herself. Good grief folks, move on.

Parakeets are great, shouldn't suffer, shouldn't be bred for profit, shouldn't be sold to uneducated persons with insufficient cages, perches and toys, and shouldn't be deprived of veterinary care when needed. But it happens a thousand times a day in every city in this country. Some are even marked down or "put on sale" to a price so low that snake owners buy them as a novelty for feeders. I'd rather see one get a home with Ike and Monica.

Choose your battles wisely.

#93455 - 08/08/07 06:24 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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Ike 'n Monica Offline
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"Ike n Monica
You have been a member here for many years (judging from your member #), during this time, there has been at least a couple of mentions that we do not agree on buying/breeding psittacines and not just cockatoos and some of these were mentioned in the cockatoo section. Perhaps you missed these posts/read infrequently and hence am surprised when people are taken aback with your thread. (Being a member for many years and an advanced member too, it is only natural for people to assume that one will be familiar with mytoos stance, hence us being shocked). If you really want to be enlightened, maybe you will be interested in reading more of the message board here and do searches since it has already been mentioned numerous times. "

I just went back to the section at the beginning of this forum entitled "Who we are and what is our agenda?". It mentions parrots but the word psittacine is not mentioned. There are widely varied opinions in this world and some persons agendas are more spread out than others. I do not consider parakeets to be a parrot. I guess some do. I am here specifically for the plight of cockatoos and having lived with them for 26 years I feel I have insight others may not have. My love of cockatoos and the specific agenda of this board will keep me here even if some don't share my opinions beyond parrots.

I do know this, that I have a couple of happy keets whose time on this earth is limited and if I can give them a good home that makes me happy. FYI, we picked out a bird that wasn't as pretty and desirable as the others just because we thought he might be the last left in the cage.

And thank you Kyrie. Exactly my thoughts as this thread progressed. Especially the choosing your battles part. If I had known what you just said about snakes and seen the keets marked down, I may have bought the whole cage full. As it was, when we first decided it might be nice to have a friend for our little refugee, and saw a cage full at the feed store, just a few days lapsed when we went back to get one. They were all gone. Later we saw some at another feed store and again, they went fast as well. They make nice little pets, but the price unfortunately makes them disposable to people whose hearts are not quite as big as mine. The battle against breeding cockatoos IMO is very possible to win, but the battle against keets no way.

#93456 - 08/08/07 07:28 PM Re: Budgies in a cockatoo cage  
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A nitpicky point, but scientifically, budgies are parrots. They're in the family Psittacidae. They are domesticated, unlike the rest of the parrot family (except cockatiels), but they're parrots all the same. "Parakeets" are simply parrots with long tails.

At any rate, it sounds like the budgie you picked out got lucky, and will have a very nice life. smile

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