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#71079 - 05/25/07 08:31 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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liviray Offline
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Quote:
I do not want a pet with which I get no reward, no appreciation, no love, and that's the very definition of small birds
Try telling that to my daughters that lost their beloved Tiel last weekend. The worthless little bird who went everywhere in the house with them, who spoke his silly little phrases, and had the personality of a real person.

They have been crying for a week now...bring flowers to his stone in the back yard everyday so they are fresh....Tell me again how small birds cant give you love or appreciation.

#71080 - 05/25/07 08:39 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Will we have 8 tiels and you really make me mad to say they do not give love or appreciation. Mine all have different personalities and they are great. I have some that love to be kissed on top of their heads and snuggle with me. Then their or some that love to play out side of the cage and crawl all over me. They all show love to us and appreciation! In fact I have one that love to stay on my shoulder and walk around the house why I'll clean or just watch tv. So there they have personalities. I love all my birds the same and they would be greatly missed if something happened to them.


Kerr&Rumor
#71081 - 05/25/07 10:32 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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I just want to say I am sorry you take offense to what was said to you.One thing I will say is that Charlie is a very dedicated person....dedicated to the birds not the human.I like that about him.Sorry you don't.I mean that in a tender way not to be rude.Afterall this group is here for the birds and to help the humans care for them properly and to try to stop the overpopulation in captivity.

I also want to add we have 6 parrots.2 Cockatoo's ,2 African Grey and 2 tiels.I have to say I love my tiels the best.They are so much bird compact into such a small boday but the most wholeheartedly loving of all of our flock.They will love you no matter what time of day or night or season.They are here to love and they do.We have both of our talking and whistling.One of ours has learned a trick or two.She plays dead when you shoot her with a finger pretend gun and she will also put a little fluffy pompom into a cup for a basket.They surely aren't anything to disregard for a loving companion.They can also go a day without me if they need to.I don't do this often but sometimes life gets busy and they are the ones who are more than happy to hang out with toys and get extra treats if they need to for a day.

I do want to ask you to please keep your comments in check when directed at the members here.They do mean allot to all of us and I don't think it is really all that necessary.I am sorry you feel things that were said were harsh....I didn't see that at all.The internet is a funny thing and you can't always know what someone feels or means from reading black and white.The emotions are very easily mistaken.

Thank you.

Jan


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#71082 - 05/25/07 10:43 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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This is just about OT, but I wanted to mention something about 1-2-tweet (who incidentally operate under another name). They were originally located here in the Lauderdale area. Several years ago, they patted themselves on the back for no longer selling large Toos (U2's/M2's). They openly admitted on their site that large Toos were the most challenging birds to live with, and that they were almost always bounced from home to home to home. After some time passed, they went back on their word and were again selling them. I visited there, seeing this for myself.

A few years back they had a huge (months long) "going out of business sale". My happiness about them going out of business was short-lived when I learned that they were simply liquidating so they could afford a larger facility in the Tampa Bay area. Those are the very type of people we stand united against here on this forum. They're money-grubbing LIARS who put the bottom line above the welfare of the birds they sell.

As for Art, I wish you the best of luck in dealing with your disability and lonliness. As I said, I hope you don't allow it to hamper your determination to have happiness in your life. While a large bird may not be the answer, I think you can find that there are others in this world who will value your company. It's hard to meet them when you're in the house so much, but you DO get out sometimes...... Keep trying! And thank you for your sacrifice.

Lynne


If you must cripple a creature
to keep it, perhaps you should
reconsider its suitability as a pet.
#71083 - 05/26/07 12:33 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art, I'm sorry you are so lonely and can understand why you would love to have a companion animal. After reading, I do not think getting a parrot, especially a Too would be any good. They require so much attention and care. I change food and water dishes 3-4 times daily and cleaning is required daily. Due to your disability and times you spend sleeping over 24 hours a day, this would be a huge problem for any pet, not just a bird. Have you thought about a cat or a small dog? They offer tons of love and affection and require less care. However it sounds like you would need help still as they need feeding, cleaning, and dogs need walks. There are also people who take their pets to hospitals, senior homes. Maybe you could contact some and see if people who do 'pet therapy' would be willing to visit you every week. That way you could experience the love and affection but not have to be responsible for the care they require. I used to be a Humane Officer for Animal Control and too often I would see animals go without care and be severely neglected as people could not care for them. Please don't become one of those people.

#71084 - 05/26/07 02:21 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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ayres with a 2 Offline
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Being the proud and thankful daughter of a 3 time Vietnam Vet, who is now widowed, I can understand how lonely you are. Yes, I thank you for your sacrifice.My Dad also thought a bird would fill the void and keep him company- and now the bird is here because it was too much for him to handle. A bird is not going to fix your lonliness.
There is a search feature at the top right of the page, Art. Do a search on TOO AND CHILDREN, DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOUR, CHEWING, PLUCKING,Harness training, LOST MY BIRD and SCREAMING. Maybe THEN you will see that it isn't just us naysayers that think 'Toos are demons- they are just 'Toos. While you are at it, do a search on hormones and biting. That should keep you busy for days.I am not being mean- we are all being honest, and that's all- we live with and for these wild animals, and work hours a day to keep them happy. People don't even take vacations because of their birds, and dropping off the bird at the pet store because you need a few days of sleep is going to do nothing but harm to the bird. That bird will see you at best as it's parent, and then as it's mate...but I'm sure it could handle (with it's toddler mindset) that you need sleep, so it has to go get poked at by strangers for a few days, away from everything it knows.
Go visit a rescue if for no other reason than to hear a 'Too scream and see what an adult is like- they are NOTHING like a baby. If you read the intro page here, and our agenda, you will have a better understanding of how we feel. Putting Charlie down for stating the rules of the board that you either didn't see or chose to ignore, and telling you the facts that no pet store will ever tell you will not fly with most of us, and if you would like to know more about how Jerry would respond, do a search on him- he is member #1- read the most recent so you'll know where he stands, and why.

Edited to add- I'm wth Liv- my daughter lost the best pet she has ever had- a hooded rat- and was inconsolable for days. That rat came when you called him, had a big, fresh meal every night and got a bath once a week. You would be very suprised how much the little animals give back when they ask for a 10th of what a large parrot will.

#71085 - 05/26/07 03:08 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art, I was one of the people who responded to you initially. I really admire your thorough research, and I can understand your motivation for wanting companionship. Please read my entire post, even if you don't like it. I am worried about several things you wrote in your more recent posts. For one, you told Charlie you spend 95% of your time in bed, I know you were upset, but if this is even nearly true, a large bird is going to be too much for you. You have a wonderful picture in your head of what your relationship with your bird will be like, BUT unfortunately you can't really "teach" a bird to be what you want them to be. They have different personalities and will do what THEY want when THEY want to. And a lot of times at the WORST possible time. I think you can only be disapointed when your bird does not turn out to be the fantasy you hope for.

I have a U2, a lovebird, and a 'tiel. My 'tiel talks more than the umbrella, walks and flies all over the house following me, or my daughters around, and likes to "play" games and barbie dolls with my daughters. It's snuggly and sweet, and thinks it's in charge of EVERYTHING! It is completely fearless, and a wonderful companion. Will go anywhere with anybody and never seems stressed by new situations (unlike Cassie who is afraid of EVERYTHING!) Our lovebird also talks quite well, and is so funny to watch playing, it's upside down more than not, and loves to play peek-a-boo.

I think you are expecting way too much from ANY animal, but I wonder why you would rule out a small bird who would be lucky to have an owner so devoted to it and give you back just as much companionship as a larger bird (and less chance of out-living you, or needing to be re-homed). I have helped many birds be re-homed after they didn't live up to their owner's expectations, and it's a tragedy. Imagine a 4 year old child having to live with stranger after stranger, and nobody being able to even tell them it was going to happen.

My biggest concern is that when you talk about what you would like to do with your bird it reminds me of when teenage girls imagine how wonderful it would be to have a baby to dress up, take on walks, and love them unconditionally. They can't imagine the magnitude of parenting, or what it will really be like- the good or the bad. I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just hoping to make you understand that the REALITY of owning a bird does not match your fantasy.

I actually think you could make a wonderful home for a small or medium size bird, if you do some more reading about their care. Small birds are easier to house, easier to clean up after, less expensive to keep, and easier to handle when they get aggressive. My daughters take their birds out in carrying cages all the time for walks, this would solve all of your problems with flying away, or being injured by dogs.

About the money, perhaps you could use it to buy a cage, playstand, food, toys, and carrier, and then find a rescued bird. If you are really all alone I would not recommend getting a baby of any species that will live more than 15-25 years, what will happen to the bird when you're gone? If you are really just going to eat the $1000 maybe you could use it to purchase supplies and donate them to a rescue, then at least it does some good.

I would be happy to answer any specific questions you still have, but it's hard to address so many issues presented at once, so keep asking. If you have decided not to own a bird, that may very well be for the best, and I commend you for making a difficult choice so unselfishly.


~ Nikki

The strongest of all warriors are these two ó Time and Patience. -Leo Tolstoy
#71086 - 05/26/07 03:15 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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There have been some requests to close this thread. I really think it might be advantageous to leave it open for now. Art probably won't be back but it can't hurt for him to read all the replies from people that already have 'Toos. Many people come here without doing any reading and it ticks me but that is life. The agenda has been pointed out; the information is here for his research. He may think about it more after a rest.

No hard feelings here, people have problems and the membership here is so diverse that he may indeed find a good compromise. I hope so. smile

#71087 - 05/26/07 04:26 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art, I haven't really checked your posts until now...sorry about your disabilities. You seem like a very unselfish person. Pets can fill a void that no person can. I appreciate the fact that you have done so much research. I wish I had done more research before we adopted our too last year. He's much more work than I anticipated. I know you must be feeling a bit frustrated & angry hearing from everyone. It's even worse because you met a really affectionate too that would make a "good companion" for you. Even though I probably shouldn't have taken in our first too, I still want to add others. They can be soooo compelling :rolleyes: I wish you well & hope you get through this time in your life. We have had tons of fun with our conure, who is twice as loud, but half the work. He's also very entertaining & affectionate! Maybe you could get a credit for your money & check out conures. I have never owned an Eclectus though smile


Gail
#71088 - 05/26/07 09:10 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Im sorry for your loneliness. but I have to agree with Charlie. He is right. Also a couple concerns I have are, since your brid will be 300ft away..and if he is callign to you, you'd HAVE to get up, he is 300 ft away, he may be in trouble!!! THat is why I always have my birds either in my room, or somewhere close by. Also to respond to your, here now quote
Quote:
Who really cares which one!!??!! They seem to be positively demon spawn creatures (as pets) and should NEVER under ANY circumstances be considered as pets.
Well NO they are NOT DEMON SPAWN CREATURES, I take offense! It is HUMANS that are devil spawn, ruining innocent, pure lives like the cockatoo, that make most cockatoos the way they are. Not because the birds are bron the way they are that this site may of made you think they are, but they are loving, MUCH MORE emotional beings then humans, and take thigns personally, these beauties are sensitive creatures, once of the most, probably the most out there, much sensitive than humans, and dont do lightly to stress and depression.

What also worries me, is your disable, and not able to properly feed a bird...

I would either sue that store for actually taking money from a disable man who couldnt think right because of the depression or say its win-loe situation.. Weird how you cannto go 3 hours away to a rescue to RESCUE an animal, but you can spedn $1000 on a petstore, which you could;ve done so for a rescue, spending $100-200 on gas fees round trip and, how ever much for the rescue, which usually includes cage and all, and GOES BACK into th birds at the rescues, NOT profit for a damn cruel petstore that spawn the "devil" inside the cockatoo. This thread makes me sad. Very sad, and makes my heart beat up into my throat.

Art you do sound like an unselfish person, really you do. And no one is here to get you. But I really think you should spend A LOT more time in rescues and to understand a too that is over 4 years of age, ones that get negleted and such, because it helps you prepare for yourself and your Too you may get.

I would say respondign to craigs list would be better bet than going to a petstore.. but what has been done is done. I am not sure what I can say about that, but to hope to get your money back. Or something...

But I really dont think a baby is good for you, I really dont. A fully mature bird, that choose you is the bird for you. But then you have to realize you NEED to cook and (or atleast) prepare fresh food daily for him! And wake up at the time the bird needs to wake up, and let him out of his cage for 6-10 hours a day and spend lots of time with you. REALLY going to a parrot rescue and getting to know a Umbie will be your best best, really. I say that out of the bottom of my heart.

Also did you know that cockatoo dander can cause breathing problems?

#71089 - 05/26/07 10:08 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art,

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I will also like to applaud you for taking the unselfish act of forfeiting the $ for the benefit of the bird and future birds to come.

You may feel that you have not been blessed by not being able to get a too. ..but I will say, you have already been blessed in these areas
ie--

1) You mentioned that you were in debt. Birds are very expensive to maintain especially for the larger ones. Vet fees, food, toys, cages etc cost a lot. Vet fees is not just limited to a 1st time check and annual check but many more. Birdmom, a member here had to sell off her car to pay for the cockatoo's vet fees when her too was sick.

2) You willl have peace of mind knowing that you will not be in a position that may hurt your bird (such as the bird not being able to get fresh food etc) when you are sick. You will not have to face the guilt of unable to care for the bird properly at times and no guilt of perpetuating the suffering of cockatoos by fueling the demand and hence supply of cockatoos. Guilt is a horrible thing to live with and I have my own share of guilt when it comes to past pets. Even though it has been many years, the guilt is always there and it doesn't lessen and will surface at times. 'Luckily' my guilt is borne of ignorance and not having the opportunity to learn and correct. I don't even want to imagine what the guilt will be like if I had the chance to learn and hear from experienced people and choose not to take their advise all because of selfish reasons ie me wanting what is best for me and not for the animals.

Thus, I thank you again for taking the unselfish route especially since so many are unable to do so. This makes you a special person in my book.

#71090 - 05/26/07 10:24 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art, it's true about a Basenji breed dog being less allergenic. They have a different coat that usually doesn't shed and they groom themselves similar to a cat. They have different personalities but Poodles are sweet and are known for not shedding either. Cats can be extremely affectionate.I have one that hasn't left my side for the last 3 hours. If it's allergies that keep you from liking cats, get a Rex or a Sphynx (hairless cat). I had a friend who had a Rex and it was very loving, just different looking. There are also hairless dogs which are also extremely friendly and affectionate that would willingly sit on your lap to be petted and love you unconditionally. A cockatoo will not. Also, if your 'living community' bans cats, they most certainly will not like a Cockatoo. The world will hear it and it will create far more mess than any cat or dog. I live in a rural neighborhood and people who live over 300 feet away can hear my Moluccan.

#71091 - 05/28/07 04:05 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art, I missed this whole thread until now, but hope you are still there, reading.
First off, thank you for serving.
Secondly, you probably don't need to complicate your already-difficult life by adding a wild animal who will need far more supervision than you will be able to give. Since you're allergic to most dogs and all cats, and what you need is really a "therapy animal" or a "service animal", you are in a difficult situation.
You don't say whether any members of your family (the niece you mention, or your mother) share the house with you, or live close by. If you did manage to get an aviary built, would you be able to maintain it?
There are nursing homes in my area which have aviaries, and the residents share the care responsibilities, but if you are all alone, you seem to need someone to care for you, rather than adding responsibility for another living thing to your already heavy load.

I have a small garden. In it I have a lot of bird and butterfly friendly plantings. Robins and starlings are really numerous, and follow me around while I work, and I talk to them. They aren't "cuddly" and don't speak English, but they do talk back, and even in winter, when I skiied around the neighboring golf course, flocks of wild birds would follow me around. Not sure they recognized me in my winter "plumage", but they did follow me around.
This allows me to have a lot more "comapnions" than "dependents" around me. We do have a cockatiel, and he's a lot of fun, and we have a sun conure, who is a truckload of entertainment, although very small, and I feel guilty for not giving both of them better lives. Can you get your niece to help you put in a patch of sunflowers? Aren't there flocks of parrots around where you are? Have you watched the "Sild Parrots of Telegraph Hill" movie?
Being a good neighbor to the wild birds around you will give you an idea about what sort of things a bird needs, and why they are sometimes just as well off living outside and flying free.
Just some thoughts. Best wishes, and keep reading.


Jody
#71092 - 05/28/07 07:39 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Hello, Art,
I just found this thread. Iím sorry you have so many challenges in your life and I, too, thank you for your service to our country.

Most of the time I use a wheelchair to get from point A to point B in the house. Also, most of the time I use my feet and legs to move my chair so that my hands are free for other things. I have help from my family to take care of Emmy, our G2. There is no way I could care for her and maintain her quality of life without help. If any more detail would be of any help to you, just say the word and Iíll do my best to describe how we manage things. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. If I had the info in the early 90s that I do now, I wouldnít have even looked at a cockatoo/parrot or gone to a breeder.

I think JM has some good ideas. I plant dwarf sunflowers in pots on our small deck and enjoy watching the birds that come by for a meal. I also have potted plants that attract humming birds. One morning I was having coffee on the deck and two humming birds ignored me and got right to work on the scented geraniums and hardy fuchsia. I get a lot of pleasure watching the wild birds enjoy our deck---even the blue jay that dug up and ate my nasturtium seeds and the crows that shredded the young chard plants. I hope you have an area where you can easily get outdoors.

#71093 - 05/29/07 07:02 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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I know I'm late to this thread, but I just wanted to post my 2 cents.

I think there are two different issues here that are getting confused:
1. Should Art get a pet
2. Should anyone buy a baby bird from a pet shop.

The agenda here is crystal clear on the second one and the answer has to be "no". No one should by buying baby birds from a pet shop and in particular, don't come here and ask us to support that.

I think part of the problem came about when that issue was getting confused with whether or not Art would be able to provide a good home for a pet.

Art, dunno if you're still reading or not. I think that in your case a cat would be ideal, I'm sorry that you're allergic and maybe you could find a breed that you're not sensitive to. As a mental health therapist myself, I understand the desperate lonliness that anyone with a disability can feel and I particularly get the lonliness and isolation of living with chronic PTSD. Folks here are passionate and I would never have expected much of a different response from them. Maybe a cockatoo isn't a great animal for you, but then again, being forever the optimist, maybe there are ways you could mobilize a support system to help you care properly for a bird.

Humans are social creatures and need a pack. Emotionally and physically, we die without it. An animal can be a wonderful companion, but I'd hate to have you get a pet and use that as an excuse to withdraw farther from the human world. Stay connected.

Cat

#71094 - 06/02/07 01:30 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Art,

I think instead of saying you are not going to get any pet you might consider a adopting a wonderful dog from the Human Society. They are loyal, loving, understanding, love to go for walks, will play when you can and will be just as happy to lay by your side when you are not feeling your best.

I am a new Too owner and I have found that they are a lot of work. The TOO I got was 5-years-old, not a baby and he was no longer wanted by his people. My day is on a set routine now that I have brought this Too into my life. With the way that your life fluctuate it would not be easy to take care of a bird.

For one a bird can not swim, therefore you could not have the bird in the hot-tub with you, not to mention that the water would be way to hot for him/her.

Birds do not go for walks. You can put them on a harness and allow them outside, but they do not walk with you like a dog does.

To allow the bird to fly along while you are on your bike is a bit optimistic. The bird would fly away. If you had a harness on him/her and it tried to fly away you the bird would hit the end of the harness and probably harm himself.

The people on this site are only trying to stop you from making a mistake. I have 6 horses and 10 dogs and of those 16 animals none of them demand the attention and time that the TOO does. With your health being the way it is Please consider going to the shelter and getting a dog.

#71095 - 06/02/07 06:53 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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The way you sound, very emotional, ups and down suggest that a too is not for you.They feed on peoples emotions really well and they can sence feelings before we know them ourselves!!!You would really have a demon spawn cockatoo then.Go and get some (or make some)people friends who can come and hang out with you.

#71096 - 06/02/07 08:02 PM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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I'm not sure Art is around anymore. The last post from him included this:

Quote:
The issue is settled.

I'M NOT GETTING ANY PET!! so you can all stop worrying about me or any bird I will never own.

I am NOT YOUR PROBLEM. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ME!! I WILL NOT GET A BIRD, I PROMISE!!
Lynne


If you must cripple a creature
to keep it, perhaps you should
reconsider its suitability as a pet.
#71097 - 06/03/07 12:16 AM Re: Need help from those of you in the know  
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Following is a link to a very interesting article concernning veterans and pets, more specifically, vets and parrots. The moment I saw this article, I thought of this thread, and wanted to share it. This isn't saying Art should, or should not have a bird. It is just a coincidental finding concerning vets and birds.

Vets & Pets

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