Here is an example of someone who thought they knew but they obviously didnt. It seems like they dont even know what kind of cockatoo they have.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/168627023.html

To music_is_love: Thank you for saying what’s in my heart. If this site had been available 13 years ago, I would not have bought a cockatoo from a breeder and probably not gotten one at all. However, what’s done is done. Emmy is family and we try to do our best for her each day--and have a better chance at it now that I found MyToos. However, there are times I just feel like a real heel when I dwell on how she came into our lives.

So many birds lead such miserable lives through human greed, stupidity, callousness, etc. Since finding this site I’ve learned to keep a box of kleenex next to the computer.

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't repost on this topic... but I can't seem to ingore the responses.

Music_is_love - I never said I know everything about Cockatoos. I said I have done a lot of reasearch and understand there are things that I can not possibly know until I get one. Please go back a re-read my posts. I don't think you understand at all. All you seem to be saying are the same things that have been said 100 times on here. I have read that, and I took that into consideration.

mom2paulie - I am not defending breeders, I am defending MY breeder. I do know a lot about my breeder. I wouldn't be making an informed decision if I did not do my home work. I have been to his house several times before I decided to purchase from him to see how his opperation works, and have since been over there almost every other day to hold and bond with Angel since she was old enough to come out of the incubater. Also, one of the ladies that works with me has 2 of his babies. Was this pointed to me? "They delude themselves into thinking that if they purchase a baby they will raise it correctly and it will stay sweet and submissive. Why can't we learn from the experience of others? People are better off adopting adult birds. " I hope not because I have never once said I will get a perfact bird. If you think I did, please re-read my post because I have said that I know it will be hard. I know that I will get mad and frustrated. I don't think everything will be great just because I am getting a baby, on the filp side, every thing is not always perfact if you get an adult either.

Relle - I didn't post the original post. I understand why you would want to caution her about her purchase, she does seem a little impulsive. Not being willing to wait for a fully weaned bird is a bit problematic. And no, no one has ever said you have bought from a breeder so I am not going to help, but you guys have said things like "Before some of the more outspoken members of this message board find your post, let me say, you have a lot to learn." and "See what your sweet little baby will look like in a few yrs. No feathers, large holes in there chest and other parts of there body, Cockatoos that scream 24 hours or other ones that have been horribly abused and are scared to death to move. " and Does your breeder have a refund policy? Is it too late to change your mind? You sound like you have really great intentions to do wonderful things for a bird, so I ask you to consider adopting." all of this is from one post. Only 2 or 3 people offered actual advice as to what she could do now that she had put a deposit down, and about 10 said things like this. The most common thing was "Please read what this site is about" Sure, it's great to know what the site is about, and sure the person who posted that question, certainly had some issues with her lifestyle, but I think many people could have been more helpful instead of pushing her off and making her feel like she was being attacked. After treatment like that do you think she is going to want to come back when there is a problem? Probably not.

Charlie - I agree, people come here once, get their question answered and leave. That is the nature of the internet. Happens on tons of boards. All the time.

Music_is_love - Sorry I missed your second post. Yes, it is sad that the Cockatoo is going to be sold. I feel for the poor thing. If I were to rescue this bird, would I know the personality I was getting? Probably not, because at 2 Cockatoos haven't gone through their hormonal changes yet.

Edit - I didn't read the other thread where the full story is told before I posted this. So I deleated the part asking for the whole story.

Here is my other post on the subject of the cockatoo being sold. I actually called the lady. She could barely even answer the questions i asked her.

http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002477

gsddiver, I didn't think you did write the 1st post and she wasn't asking for help she was asking us to "share the joy" and not "jump on her" for doing something stupid (I'm sorry, but it is)namely buying from a breeder. Perhaps you should re-read my last post?

Relle - In your post you said "you" several times "If you have read the message to new members then you should be able to understand why most people on here won't "share the joy" that you bought from a breeder AND are bringing an unweaned baby home. Stating that you have, invites negative comments...and I have yet to see anyone on here say, "Well, you bought a baby from a breeder and now you are having problems/want advice, but we are not going to help you."

Either you were directing all those comments at me as I am the only one who has said you guys are less then helpful to people who have just purchased a new too. Or you are mixing who you are talking to in one paragrah, and that is a little confusing. Sorry I was confused.

Sorry for the confusion - I was directing my remarks at both of you.

Relle - I also realized I may have been less then clear in my post also, when I said "No one offered advice" I was talking about the post I got the quotes from who was asking for advice. Sorry.

Edit - Just didn't want to post another new post. Relle, I do say congratulations. I think that once the decision is made, (after a deposit is put down it's pretty much made.) you should move past how you got the baby and onto what you can do for it now. The person said she had done her research and new what she was getting into. She may have problems by bringing the baby home before it's weaned, but if she knows what she's getting into that's her problem. Again I was trying to offer support for a decision already made... if she were just talking about getting the bird then I may offer a differant opnion.

Why are we still talking about this?

If two (or more) people are going spend time debating any topic, all parties must be able to consider their opponents position MIGHT be valid - no matter how unlikely. Otherwise, everyone is just blowing hot air for no apparent reason.

Likewise with the breeder issue.

100% of captive birds are living in sub-standard environments (because a cage will never be a jungle).

It is impossible justify actively and knowingly contributing to another bird being born into another cycle of cruelty.

I am really not trying to be snarky (sorry if I came across that way), but I really don't understand. I've never told someone that I won't offer help because they bought their bird from a breeder, but I won't accept that commercial breeding programs are beneficial in any way.

Mr_Mollie_Mom - I can't agree more. I wish this post would die because I achieved what I wanted. Many people said they didn't mean to offend the new posters. That's all I wanted. I don't think I will change any minds... but I also am a little to prideful to allow people to continue to barrage me with post and questions after I have said that I am done posting. Sorry, one of my faults.

LOL...I had just went back and read the "New Members" post (Mr. Mollie Mom you and I must be on the same wavelength today!) And I thought, hmmm, bet this post gets deleted! Is Jerry back from holidays yet?

Ooops, should have said RE-READ!

Speaking of Jerry, check out what he has to say about breeders/breeding:

http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002180#000008
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002122#000017
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000401#000009
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000223#000017
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001265#000015
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000210#000018
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000519#000005
http://www.mytoos.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000077#000000

If you've taken the time to read, I think the stance of the owner of the board is clear. I'm sure by now, if Jerry wasn't 'across the pond' he would have said what he had to say in a much shorter way.

Lynne

I tried to stay away from this one, I really did.

BUT!

When someone comes here saying how they are in the process of BUYING A BABY and are looking for us to be 'excited' with them, they're in the wrong place. If we're going to stand up for what we believe in (adopting not breeding) then we must do all we can to change someone's mind BEFORE they make the mistake of purchasing.

Gsddiver, there is nothing you can say that will change anyone's mind in here to agree that breeding is OK. It isn't. It's silly to try to change the minds of those who have been there, done that, bought the TShirt. Would you join a Christian church as an athiest and debate that there is a God? Why bother?

You're starting out on a journey that we've been on already. We don't make this stuff up. We live it. Every day.

Cindy

Here are some good websites on ADOPTING not buying. And some very sad stories of neglect.

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/fall2001/rescuespotlight.htm

http://www.theangryparrot.org/puppy_and_parrot_mills.htm

This one is VERY graphic. please only look if you have a strong stomach. Im not kidding. This is the saddest thing Ive ever seen in my life. This is actually a bird sanctuary. Go to the left of the page and click "Neebs Info" and read the flyer on what he says about his sanctuary, then go look at his pictures of the birds and there living conditions. Im so glad that they caught him and saved the birds.
http://mysite.verizon.net/resoj0ns/index.html

This is my very last post on this topic. If other people reply I will not answer. If you would like to talk about this off the board then I will be happy to but I am not going to reply again. I will restate what I was trying to do here and then end it. We can move on to other topics.

I was not trying to change anyones mind about anything. (I have said that consistantly) I was pointing out that you guys have a habit of being harsh on people who are purchasing. I understand that that's what this board is about, and did not post for a long time because of that stance. I knew my view wouldn't be welcome. I personally don't belive that all breeders are bad and no one will ever convince me they are. You do and that's fine. But several people have said that they do not mean to be harsh and that's all I wanted. For people to think about what they are saying and what that will do to the birds that are purchased. For every bird that you guys save because you badger someone into rescuing instead of purchasing you run 10 people off becuase they don't feel welcome or they feel that if they have a problem they will have to put up with 20 people telling them how bad they are. That DOES NOT benifit any bird and no one can say it does. I did not want this to turn into what it has, and I am sorry it has. I never asked for anyone to support my opnion just be more aware of how they give theirs. For those that have listened to what I said, and realized they may be to harsh (if not in their opnion then in the way they offer it) Congratulations, your a better person now. For those that refuse to see the point of my posts and simply want to badger people and tell them how horrible they are. I am sorry.

You may all continue to post as you will, but I will not respond. I will respond to other posts, not about breeding though. (Well if I don't get kicked off altogether because of what this has turned into.

Jessica

gsddiver,
Linus and i have been away for several months..just enjoying being a Too. I , like you, bought Linus BEFORE i found this site. I was not blind going into this as i sit for the Too across the street and was aware of what i was getting myself into. If you are hell bent on getting that baby, be sure you have your eyes open. Is it wonderful ? sure. Is it time consuming? you bet your butt it is. Frustrating, yup that too. Wonderful cuddle...yes i get them daily. Thing im trying to point out here i think,, is dont have too many expectations from your baby. You WILL get bit. You will get attacked. It is inevitable. I know Linus will bite me eventually... i wait on it. I also try very hard to learn his every move so that i might be able to tell when he is going to do it. I know a lot of people read this site and think to themselves "oh that is not MY baby My baby wouldnt do something like that." These are wild birds with wildness in their blood. So you have to decide now, what you will do when your baby, the one you poor love all over day in and day out...hauls off and bites the snot out of you.. striking bone of course. I believe i read somewhere that they have about 200 lbs of pressure behind that beak if they choose to use it. So me..with my eyes open expect to get bitten. And i have also made a deal with Linus and to myself. We both know it will happen.. we both know it will pass. Some people get bit and decide thats it the bird is out of here. Which is why, everyone on this board gets so upset about someone buying yet another baby. Please before you decide for sure to buy the baby, consider it as an older bird. Will you offer this baby a forever home? no matter WHAT that involves?. Oh and then the screams. I am lucky Linus is not much of a screamer (see? i say that.. .and then i follow it with a big YET. Because it will happen. A jumbo jet noise is 145 decibles.. a cockatoo scream is 135 decibles..prolonged 120 decibles leads to profound deafness. I have promised Linus this is the first and only home he will have. No matter What happens. I am prepared to fulfill that promise. I ask that you do the same. and good luck.People here are the most collective experienced Too owners i have ever seen. Opinionated? yes.. but only for the birds sakes.And after you have had your baby for a year or two, there will be someone post saying they want a new baby cockatoo..and YOU , my friend will take the same stand as we all do. Now, with all the negative being said. The pro's with Linus far outweigh the con's ..at least in our situation. Please be sure that the baby is weened. If it is not properly weened..it can do psychological damage down the road. and if you have to feed the baby, please be well read in it first, so that the baby nor yourself get injured. Good luck and like i said... people are here to help and guide. Use the knowledge that they have on this board,, it will help you and your baby in the long term.

* you Will get bit, you WILL get attacked * How very true! Im cautious of this post, get the 'wind-up' feeling, BUT regardless, there is some very vauable information here. If someone had said to me 6 months ago that mt sweet nippy little Queenie (Galah) would EVER viciously attack me, Id have been in innocent denial. My inner mouth STILL hasnt healed properly from his totally unprovoked attack on my face. Or maybe NOT so unprovoked????
I keep him caged/housed. he dosent fly above tree tops, he dosent eat crap and roughage from the wilderness floor, or luscious wild berries and juicy wriggling insects. BECAUSE he has been forced into becoming a pet. So, one day, about 3 weeks ago, he took his frustration out of me, and ripped my inner lip open.
Was his attack unproked? I think NOT. It was provoked from the day the precious egg he hatched out of was layed in captivity.
I adore my Queenie, but I wish I could release him. I cant. I dont know what else to say really.

It seems that the ones who run off are usually the ones who don't hear what they want to hear. Something we've all had to face in this forum is the fact that some people just don't see the big picture - or don't really care for the welfare of birds over their own selfishness. For those who are determined to do their best for the birds in their care, they stick around - if even to only lurk. For those who are into the novelty and notoriety they get for being a 'bird person', they shrink away into another world where they don't have to face the truth. Kudos to those who are determined - even if we cannot agree point-by-point.

Lynne

Hi Jessica...I doubt you will get kicked off but the post may be deleted. I guess we will have to "agree to disagree" on this particular issue...but if you ever change your mind, let me know! <img border="0" alt="[laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh[1].gif" />