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#248205 - 09/23/12 05:15 AM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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EchosMom Offline
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I agree with Charlie...why start?


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#253532 - 10/01/13 10:06 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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•Copulation - Do you put your hands under your birds wings? Do you pet your bird with full body strokes? Do you let your bird sit on you while you watch TV? Do you cover your bird with towels or blankets? These are all behaviors to avoid. Wild cockatoos never make bodily contact with other cockatoos except to mate. You can never mate with a cockatoo so don't lead the cockatoo to believe you can!

I'm sorry but I disagree, although they have the gene of a wild cockatoo, mine are domestic hand raised birds. I do however limit the amount of petting in those areas, both my birds love it and I will continue to show them that affection.

#253536 - 10/01/13 11:00 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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Quote:

I'm sorry but I disagree, although they have the gene of a wild cockatoo, mine are domestic hand raised birds.



The wild cannot be removed from our cockatoos. They are genetically designed to mate. Being hatched and handfed in captivity does nothing to alter the natural urge to mate. Male Toos have hormones and female Toos have hormones. These hormones are present and mating is innate. Just as with humans if mating cannot occur frustration over not being able to mate can lead to neurotic behavior or personality disorders. Just as you and I have the urge to mate so do cockatoos. Cockatoos have the urge to eat, drink, escape the elements, avoid pain and mate. Domestic hatch doesn't take away any of the innate needs.

Toos find 'mates' in humans sometimes. This is a real tragedy as they cannot mate or be a mate with a human and many toos don't do well even with other toos of their same species due to the tragedy of human imprinting by handfeeding and being raised to be a pet.

Petting and stroking a cockatoo is sending them a message of sexual bonding. Heavy breathing can occur with various cluck sound vocalizations and unusual posturing. This is instinct but then it backfires as when they cannot fulfill the pattern of courting, mating, copulation, laying eggs and incubating, feeding chicks until fledge it can lead to neurosis or psychosis and self mutilation.

Think of it like this; how would any human especially a male deal with not having access to his romantic inclination and acts at all. Think of the frustration, anger and change in personality due to not being able to fulfill an innate need. Then think of someone 'teasing' him in this area while not having access....

The innate needs of eating, drinking, escape from the elements, avoid pain and mating are present fully in our captive hatched cockatoos.

If any owner of any cockatoo 'teases' either knowingly or unknowingly this gets the Too started and then when it cannot be completed the Too can become a chronic screamer, chronic biter, self mutilation, neurotic behavior such as head bobing, making circles with the head, slashing the beak in the air and more.

A cockatoo kept busy each day outside of cage playing with toys, able to rip and shred safe things apart, able to vocalize in the AM and PM, the use of forage feeding toys gets a too tired and played out, and a played out too is a happy too. Toos kept busy are less likely to become 'problem toos', sleep better, eat better as in they are less fussy, and have a good outlet for energy. They were designed to fly, pair up, mate and forage (work) for food. When one of these cannot be met the others must be upped in order to reduce the urge for the one not being able to be met.

So provide lots of time out of cage, lots of cockatoo safe toys, safe toys and other for shredding and tearing, interaction which promotes safe physical activity - exercise, lots of really cool forage feeders and toys available many dishwasher safe to get them working with their minds and body to get their food.

It really doesn't matter what you or I or anyone thinks or agrees or disagrees with as biology is biology and domestic hatched toos retain all the innate instincts. Not one of them magically disappears upon being hatched in captivity. Also our toos are not domesticated. They are wild birds living in captivity or captive wildlife.

Domestication means selective intentional breeding of an animal to remove undesirable traits and make the animal more suitable for living in captivity. Parrots are not domesticated. Never have been and never will be. Any animal be it a parrot, lion, tiger, snake or shark is not domesticated just because it was born or hatched in captivity.

#253541 - 10/02/13 01:50 AM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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Kevin that attitude is setting your birds up for issues when they become sexually mature. Both are juveniles right now. In a couple of years your female will begin to lay eggs and if you persist in inappropriately petting her she may become a chronic layer. Chronic laying can lead to prolapse, egg binding, calcium deficiency and a host of other medical issues. Please take some time and read. You are new to cockatoos and really need to learn what they are all about. They are not like other parrots.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#253545 - 10/02/13 12:13 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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Can't take the "wild" out. They may appear to be domesticated now, but eventually their "wild" side does come out. Before discovering this site, I was guilty of all the petting. The first year I had her I thought is was so neat to be able to touch her everywhere. I was like in awe of having such a majestic animal and being able to touch her was just great... Until she got older and the behaviors started kicking in. Screaming, lunging -she became attached to my ex husband for a very brief period of time as I found out later he would let her go up under his shirt while watching TV and allow her to make clucking noises. The first time I witnessed that happening, we stopped everything. I first learned about the petting and what I was doing when I took her to my AV and had him explain "the birds and the bees." Now years later, I mainly just scratch her head. I am guilty of letting her sit on me while watching TV or when I am on the computer. As soon as she starts getting a little too comfortable with something I'm doing, I stop. Too much stimulation almost always leads to excessive screaming and her throwing a fit. The other thing is if she comes out of her cage and I see her attitude immediately change with the dog, she won't let him anywhere near me and will try to keep him away. When this happens, I cannot allow her out because someone will get hurt. For the few times it happens, she just goes to bed early. Just like us, sometimes too much a good thing is not always good.

I really enjoy this site because all of us are here to learn from each other.

#253548 - 10/02/13 01:53 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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EchosMom Offline
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Only once, maybe twice, removed from the wild is far from being domesticated.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#253550 - 10/02/13 05:06 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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Cassie I'm not trying to say my bird will or will not get to that point, like I said I limit the amount that they both get, maybe a scratch here and there under the wings but I mostly limit it to head scratches. I hear alot about how they WILL change as they get older, but, My friend has had a female umbrella for 23 years & never once showed any kind of aggression toward him or his wife she is as loving as the day they bought her home. Learning to read your bird is the key

#253551 - 10/02/13 05:19 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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No it's not. I'm not talking aggression so much here as I am health. Does your friends U2 lay eggs? Do they scratch under the wings. Is it a confirmed female. Remember DNA test can get messed up because of human error. I honestly pray that you do not have issues. I met a woman age 32 and her husband. It was a sad meeting. Her U2 had just passed at 30 years old. The U2 lived with her parrents from the time it was a baby. They grew up together. The bird had never laid an egg. She became egg bound and passed away during the xray.
One of our members here had her M2 DNA tested and it was male. At 8 years old if I remember correctly he got sick. Rushed to the vet to find out he was egg bound and almost passed.
You are going to do what you want regardless of any of the warnings, which is too bad because down the road your birds will be the ones to pay.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#253552 - 10/02/13 07:43 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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They do sparingly, she is a confirmed female, not sure if she ever laid eggs (though I never thought to ask). You don't have to worry, I would never put my birds on danger, I know when she is getting sexually anxious and I back off. I'm not trying to argue, I respect your opinion, but Am I never to touch the birds again, maybe a should have gotten a budgie

#253555 - 10/02/13 08:34 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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My husband and I touch Cassie all the time. We just limit the touching to above the neck. I preen her feathers along her neck and head. She loves to have her head and beak scratched. We shake hands/feet. When she is nervous she holds my finger for security. Oh and Budgies are the same with sexual frustration.

Last edited by BE2Cassie; 10/02/13 08:36 PM.

Nancy & Cassie BE2
#253556 - 10/02/13 08:42 PM Re: Want a good New Year's resolution? [Re: Charlie]  
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I mostly scratch their heads and neck, just the occasional rub under the wings

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