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#23603 - 01/05/03 04:43 AM "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Jerry Offline
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The Animal Protection Institute (API) in coordination with the Avian Welfare Coalition is calling on activists around the U.S. to take action on behalf of captive birds by drawing attention to the exploitation of other country's native birds by the U.S. pet industry on January 5 -- National Bird Day.

"National Bird Day" is not only a good day to take time to appreciate the native wild birds flying free outside our windows, it is also a perfect time to reflect on how we treat the native birds of other countries. While we have enacted laws to protect our native birds -- such as blue jays, cardinals, and crows -- from commercial exploitation, we fail to recognize the inconsistency in allowing the pet industry to exploit the birds of other countries.

Even when bred in captivity, exotic birds are not considered domesticated animals, and all their inherent behavioral and physical needs remain intact. Sadly, when it comes to birds, deprivation of their natural behaviors (to fly and flock, for example) is an inescapable component of their captivity.

Each year thousands of birds are sold into the pet trade to individuals who are under the mistaken impression that a bird will make a perfect pet. Eventually, whether due to frustration, disinterest, or concern, many people attempt to rid themselves of the responsibility of caring for their birds. Unfortunately, few of these birds will find a loving home, and most will spend their days isolated and confined to their cages. Others will bounce from home to home as "owners" tire of them, and some may be abandoned at local shelters and birds rescues, set free to fend for themselves or euthanized.

Meanwhile pet stores across the country including Petco and PetsMart continue to treat birds like merchandise peddling them into the pet trade. Pet stores that sell live animals are routinely faced with conflicting responsibilities between caring for the health and well being of the animals and protecting the store's bottom line. More often than not it's the bottom line that prevails.

http://www.avianwelfare.org/links/index.htm

#23604 - 01/05/03 07:05 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Jerry, that is strange information. In Michigan and many other states, it is perfectly legal to shoot and poison crows and starlings and others. But owning them will result in having the bird immediately confiscated and destroyed. That is why so many African Pied Crows and White Neck ravens are imported as pets. It is illegal to own nearly every bird in America EXCEPT imported birds. YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO SHOOT THEM. At least Austailians can legally keep cockatoos. This is a weird way to want to help parrots.

#23605 - 01/05/03 04:03 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I dont see your point. We all know that non native species decimate the local wild bird population. Starlings especially are the worst offenders... wiping out native songbirds by the hundreds of thousands if not more. So naturally it's legal to kill them...and illegal to own and breed them. So what's the problem?

Quote:
At least Austailians can legally keep cockatoos.
Australians can also shoot and poison their native birds, but we cant because we have serious federal laws protecting the tiniest songbird. Are we not better in this respect?

We cannot export our native birds as Australia (and others) have for many years (until relatively recently) and we cannot own and cage them. Wouldnt it be wonderful if ALL countries had the very same laws? Why would I want to own (cage) a Bluejay for instance? It's a beautiful and extremely intelligent bird and I'm sure would make a good cage bird. But we think nothing of importing (stealing) other countries native birds and confining them to our idea of "pets".

To this day people look the other way as to the origination of something they want..they just HAVE to have dont they? Lets remember that every single parrot ever brought over here was originally stolen from it's nest and that fact still remains to be a problem today, even with all the laws in place. Where there's money, there's corruption.

But back to your point... what is it? If Michigan has some state law that demands the killing of a pet Starling, I suspect one of two things: The law is pretty old, and there is no way in hell that the state is going to spend big bucks and time tracking you down... getting a search warrant...and removing your bird. Most states cant even afford to deal with REAL criminals much less someone who owns a non native species (especially common ones).

Lets also remember that "most" tropical birds couldnt survive in 3/4 of North America and so I doubt that the Government places a high priority on their ownership. Even if they did, they (again) dont have the resources to deal with all but a few.

The bottom line is that I would prefer to see most parrots flying free instead of being caged.

#23606 - 01/05/03 05:29 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Just want to add that yes us Aussies can legally own most cockatoos & the majority of our native ones, but they really have no value to most of the population. If a pet pink & grey for instance dropped dead, it is easy to just go out and buy another. Taking your bird to the vet is also very rare unless you have an expensive pair of Majors or Black 2s. Not many people (in my experiences) take their birds to the vets. There are only 3 Avian vets in Western Australia ( where I live)- the largest state - so that in itself says something.

Jerry - not just anyone can legally kill any bird in Australia. We are supposed to use licensed cullers if we have a bird problem, or notify the proper authorities. People can be prosecuted if found to be killing or harming any bird. Having said that - many many people, mainly farmers, do shoot & poison our native 2s & as there are few officials around the outback, prosecutions are rare. Apart from the slaying of our common 2s, our rare & struggling 2s are killed also. Farmers do not discriminate between species. angry
Please also be aware that many of us are against the killing, both official & un-official & yes the U.S is much better than our Government who allows this to continue.

Eva... smile

#23607 - 01/05/03 06:20 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Eva, I'm pretty familiar with Australias laws concerning the killing of native species. I'm also aware that the government tends to "look the other way" when it comes to farmers. I'm also aware that many if not most Australians dont like what's going on there. That still hasnt (so far) changed much.

The only bird we have to compare here is the American Crow. There is usually a season on crows in most states but not always. But the difference
( at least I feel it is a big difference) in the culling of crows is the following: Crows are notorious for robbing bird eggs and can wreak havoc on the native bird population. But how is this possible you say? By the very same laws that protect most native birds also protect (to some extent) the crows. But THAT'S not the REAL problem! As Americans "civilize" and hunt less and less, the crow population grows more and more, especially in the larger cities where you NEVER saw a crow in the past... you will see them by the thousands because of "easy pickings" from everything from backyard feeders to road kill. Even as I speak, there are an estimated 75,000 crows within a half mile of me ..living in trees right in the middle of the city! They have been here for 4 years now and their numbers are growing. In the meantime, our common songbird population has had a drastic decline.

Why am I bringing this all up? Because our reasons for killing crows vs cockatoos is becoming completely different now: We used to kill crows just to save crops ( peoples food supply) just like your farmers in Australia.

But now we have a much more important reason: Without all the native species of songbirds who contribute billions and billions of dollars in the form of everything from pollination to planting trees etc to "health" (without song birds to control insects we'd all be dead by now... either from the insects or the chemicals we'd have to use to control them)... I feel justified in controlling the native crow population. Again... not just for "man" but for all the other wildlife that can easily become extinct by their large numbers (that man has helped I must say).

So it all boils down to this: If man has allowed a species, any species, to overpopulate (through his laws or otherwise).. and the result is FIRST: a threat to other species..and SECOND: a threat to man... what do we do about it?

As you can see... we both have our crosses to bear..

#23608 - 01/07/03 08:07 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Crows are also native birds thought most of the US. I personaly have a great fondness for corvids of many feathers, from bluejays to ravens. I do think that the governments position on keeping native birds as pets is rather unresenable, and in some cases very wrong. I think what Randa is saying is that the law in the US makes no real sense. I will be bluntly honest, I quite agree with killing off the europien starling, the nasty little things are a real pest. Crows are a native species. Most crows do not eat the same thing that songbirds eat, so there is not that much direct compitesion. I know for a fact that the 'state' has, more than once, hunted down someone who had a crow and fined them, and murdered the bird. Even though it was a human impented bird and was non-releasable. Ask the people of ASCAR how the corvids have been persicuted, thay will give you a large earfull.

Umm, pardon me for getting on the soap box, but, I happen to like crows, and I see the crows out at the bird feeder every now and then, sharing it with the other birds.

Kibbe.

#23609 - 01/07/03 09:01 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I too like crows! Have a pair here at work that hang around quite a bit. They don't exactly bully the little guys but they do get their fair share of the eats I put out for everyone!!
Unfortunately these days crows are getting extra bad press because of West Nile virus. 99% of people still think you can catch this virus from crows!! Had a juvenile bird smash into window here & of course the "girly" girls at the office were freaked out when I insisted on bringing it in out of the heat until I could take to wildcare facility.
I never realized how big (or beautiful) these birds are close up!

Anyway, I know I'm off topic but just had to comment.

Liisa B smile

#23610 - 01/07/03 10:39 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Dont misunderstand me... I like crows too! They are a very intelligent bird who lives by his wits more than by instinct I feel. They have always been persecuted but their numbers are bigger than ever.

However, Nature normally has something in place to make sure NO animal population gets so large that it wipes out other animal species. It does this by many things including: number of offspring... lifespan... food supply... preditors... and disease. That's why I'm not surprised by the West Nile Virus. It's always been somewhere in the world along with hundreds of other diseases to kill off birds (and animals).

Man has an amazing way of changing animal and bird populations however. He either kills them off as pests or for what they and their feathers can provide him...or he passes laws that arent thought out very well, he then has a problem of too many birds an animals. They take over other species lives and create havoc with Nature.

Right now where I live, the deer population has gotten so out of hand that the auto insurance companies are complaining and some major ones like State Farm wont even cover you now. The people have been up in arms for many years over this issue. People are dying every month from hitting deer on the highways. The airports have had crashes where planes hit them on landing or takeoff.

My point is that if crows were 'Toos, and they had such large numbers (mostly due to us) that they were starting to wipe out other species, I guess I'd have to cull them also.

#23611 - 01/08/03 04:19 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I live in a wonderful place where there are many crows, red tailed hawks, bluebirds, blue jays, cardinals, and large woodpeckers (cannot remember the name) and more right here in my own yard. I spend hours just watching them and listening to them. I even heard two owls calling back and forth during the summer evenings when I would go outside. That was really special.
No matter how I look at it, people are the problem, not the animals. Humans brought the non-native species to this continent. They also brought West Nile. Why is it that all animals must suffer for HUMAN overpopulation (which is the real problem here)? I have a book called "Hope is the Thing with Feathers". It is about the native species that humans wiped out in the USA. It is very touching to read. I am not trying to start a flame, so please don't yell at me. I just get kind of irked at the whole mess of things..... Lori and Flock

#23612 - 01/08/03 04:52 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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There is no doubt that man has managed to upset the balance of nature. Fortunately, man is attempting to correct his past mistakes in most cases. (Trying)

There is a finite amount of space on this planet. Eventually it's going to fill up and animal species will continue to die off.

There's only one way to prevent this: Men get
vasectomies and women have their tubes tied. I've done my part... have you? wink

#23613 - 01/08/03 06:15 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I got my tubes tied at 25. Fought to have this done since 18. Most doctors won't touch a female who has not married and has not had children. It was REALLY difficult. They kept saying "you might change your mind". I kept on going from doctor to doctor until I found one that would do it. At 32 I was spayed, so to say, due to ongoing problems (which is what I wanted in the first place, but they would not hear of it until I got really bad).
Weird as it sounds, I just didn't and still don't have a mothering instinct toward babies. Better explained as neutral. I could go on and on with how many women have absolutely HATED me for the way that I am. I have been called "inhuman" before to my face.
I have found that a mothering instinct comes out with my cockatiels. I never knew what this feeling was until I got these precious little birds.
I know my view may be sort of harsh, but there are just too many humans.....

#23614 - 01/08/03 08:55 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Lori,

Hooray for you!! I also have no "maternal" instinct towards human babies & yes people think I am WEIRD too.
Well, they can keep their smelly little bundles of joy & I will keep my feathered kids smile
I agree with the fact that the problem is US, humans, people, however you wish to label the problem.
My husband & I have no offspring either, we both feel the same way, there are enough problems in this world already, why contribute, why not try to solve the ones we already have??!!

Liisa B :rolleyes:

#23615 - 01/08/03 09:19 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Lori I am the mother of 4 sons, but I commend you for sticking to your beliefs in what you think is best for you. Not everyone wants to have children and its not a calling that I would recommend for everyone either. I have friends that made the choice not to have children and it doesnt bother me a bit, or make me angry.
Liisa again, I respect your right not to have children also. I DO however have to say that your remark

"Well, they can keep their smelly little bundles of joy & I will keep my feathered kids"

is a bit offensive, as I expect you to respect MY feelings about motherhood also and I had 4 little smelly bundles of joy AND raised parrots at the same time, and I wouldnt trade either for the world, so if you want your rights and feelings respected, perhaps you could do the same and respect those who do make the choice to become parents :-)

#23616 - 01/08/03 09:34 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I'm another "weirdo". I had "that" plumbing problem taken care of at 27. I cringe when I'm asked to babysit w/ my sister's kids. Give me a screaming 'Too over a screaming kid ANY day! Give me 'Too dander over runny noses! I'll take a terrible 'Too two yr. old for life than a terrible two two yr. old for a year! I don't dislike kids but I guess you can say they aren't my cup of feathers...er tea!

#23617 - 01/09/03 12:32 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  

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Since when does having your tubes tied or a hystorectomy have anything to do with this topic?
And having children is a personal choice, one I don't really care why any of you made or not...doesn't make you a better or worse bird owner. And children ARE HARDER TO RAISE THAN A PARROT as long as we're all OT here. If I could pick between a cockatoo and a baby I'd choose the too because it's EASIER.

#23618 - 01/09/03 12:38 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I'd choose the kid so after 18 years wink I could spend the rest of my life for myself and my wife.

#23619 - 01/09/03 01:31 AM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Well Ivan, it may be off the topic but its still a discussion and I felt like putting my 2 cents in whether you care about it or not :-)
(HUMAN kid bashing is something that will get my back up everytime)

#23620 - 01/09/03 06:43 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  

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Exactly my point Mona. It's just pure silliness to discuss reasons for not having kids on a national bird day thread....
I can only hope I can do both, well.

#23621 - 01/09/03 08:41 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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Mona,
Geeez lighten up !! You deserve a medal for raising 4 children! I just happen to be of the opinion that babies do not smell all that good!
Some people don't like the way horses smell.... I do. Some people like the way babies smell.... I do not. See the connection? smile

Liisa B

#23622 - 01/09/03 09:49 PM Re: "National Bird Day" Jan 5th  
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I have a very good sense of humor Liisa, but I am also a mother of human children and if you want me to respect your feelings about not having children, dont call them smelly bundles of joy, and expect me to respect YOUR feelings. Since you dont have children, and I have children AND parrots, I'm in a much better position to know the difference in how hard it is to raise them both. This thread went WAY off topic, but since it did, thats how I feel about people that dont have kids expressing their "opinions" about how hard they are to raise..OR how bad they smell. You think YOUR sh*t smells like roses? :-)
Thats all I have to say about this, since like Ivan said, it has nothing to do with birds anyway.
P.S.
And I dont deserve a medal for raising 4 children, the joy they have brought to my life outweighs any hardships and sleepless nights, ask any mother, she'll tell you the same.


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