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#224107 - 08/04/10 06:31 PM Cleo - Stick Training ?  
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Cleo's Mom Offline
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sick About a week ago Cleo was perched on my arm and lost her balance due to the @#*^* e-collar. She grabbed my ear to keep from falling and actually hung from it! i managed to get her back on my arm and she fall AGAIN, once more grabbing my poor ear. This morning I had her on my arm, blocking her with my other arm/hand. She wanted to get on my shoulder, which I don't permit anymore so she jumped over the blocking and again grabbed my ear (same one). I can't even describe the pain I am in right now. As I am very short (5') and Cleo is a large Moluccan, she can reach me easily so I am seriously thinking about stick training her. She is TERRIFIED of sticks, like many birds and I really have no idea how to go about this. Can ABA be helpful with this? If so, I need to work very seriously on this. Any help/direction you can give will be greatfully appreciated.


Pat

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#224109 - 08/04/10 07:03 PM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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Pat, absolutely ABA can help. ABA can help with any behavioural issue. If Cleo were my bird, I think I would use clicker training (operant conditioning/ABA) to stick train her.

http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.com/2010/04/stick-training-parrots.html

Bev


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#224119 - 08/05/10 02:08 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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I've read the article and watched the video several times and both are very helpful. I did notice in the video that she appeared to give the treat prior to getting the desired behavior. I thought it was the reverse. Clicker training may not be an option for me as I'm not sure I can click fast enough when I see the desired behavior - eye/hand coordination not the greatest. The closed fist as a target sounds like it would work. I guess I would start with her getting to follow my closed fist and rewarding her for each little positive step. Sound right, Bev?


Pat

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#224121 - 08/05/10 03:56 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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Absolutely. What kind of perch/stick do you plan on using? It is the reverse but sometimes they will show the treat (bribe) to get a desired response and then fade it out. It might be the bird was given a treat for even looking at the perch. Approximations. You reward the slightest movement in the correct direction so even a look at the perch would count and is rewarded.

Make sense? I have an idea about the perch/stick if you tell me exactly what you will be using.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#224147 - 08/06/10 02:08 PM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Regarding the stick I plan to use, was thinking of 1-1/2" or 1" PVC (lighter weight than wood) kind of roughened with sandpaper to enable her to get a better grip. I really have no clue about the length or how I would hold it,horizontal or perpendicular. Your ideas would be most welcome. I plan to start this week-end, if possible.


Pat

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#224152 - 08/06/10 03:04 PM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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Pat, how about wrapping the PVC with vet wrap? You'd have to replace it periodically because it gets sticky but if you wrapped it enough times that would give Cleo a good grip on it.

I would say get a piece about a foot long and wrap it well so she doesn't slip.

I have a plan.

Bev


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#224163 - 08/06/10 08:34 PM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Pat, Nancy (BE2Cassie) had a fabulous idea to use a perch that was already in Cleo's cage or one exactly the same as a perch that is in her cage. She said the zoos do this with much faster results and it makes sense to me.

Does she have a favourite perch?

Bev


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#224172 - 08/07/10 01:55 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Her favorite perch actually is made of PVC. The vet wrap is a great idea and there would be no question about toxicity. One more question before I get started - how do I prevent her from running up the stick onto my arm and then to my shoulder where she really wants to be? Think I will try the clicker again on the chance I am wrong about my hand/eye coordination.


Pat

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#224175 - 08/07/10 02:31 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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It doesn't have to be a clicker Pat. It could be a click with your tongue. The clicker is just a bridge to tell the bird that something good is coming. Any sound will do. Some people say "good bird" but you have to be consistent. You reward for staying put. Running up the arm gets Cleo nothing. I suspect being on your shoulder is very reinforcing to her, right? Are you afraid she will run up your arm and bite you? You could sing and dance with her as soon as she is on the perch. Make that more "attention getting" or reinforcing than being on your shoulder. In other words, she gets way more attention for being on the perch than she does for being on your shoulder. Make sense so far?

Bev



Timing is very important when you clicker train, Pat.

Last edited by ZazuSally; 08/07/10 02:31 AM. Reason: added something

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#224245 - 08/09/10 02:13 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Yes Bev, it makes a lot of sense. I'm not afraid of her biting me as I now wear a bandana tied around my head to protect my ears. I have just been too nervous around her since the horrible bites and I know she was picking up on it. The bandana has enabled me to be perfectly relaxed again. Yes, she loves the shoulder but I have been trying to break her of it. I'm going to try just verbally clicking while making it very rewarding for her to be perched on my arm or hand.


Pat

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#224255 - 08/09/10 02:21 PM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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Once she realizes that being on the perch will get her more of the things she values than being on your shoulder, it shouldn't be a problem. So how about you charge the "click" by spending a minute or two just clicking verbally and giving her a tiny piece of her favourite treat or sounds like she loves the pine nuts like my birds. So you are letting her know that the verbal click signals good things are coming. Make sure the pieces are tiny Pat. Are you finding the pine nuts are tiny this year. I think something must have happened to the pine nut crops because Costco doesn't even have any and I've been paying a fortune for scrawny nuts. Don't you just hate that.LOL

Clear as mud so far? LOL

Keeping a log might help too, Pat!!

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#224350 - 08/13/10 02:19 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Made a start on the training last week-end and it went well (I think). I talked with my AV yesterday about the plans for Cleo's stay there so they could work on getting the e-collar off.
AV thinks I should wait until the collar is off (think positive, Pat) before doing any more training. She is of the opinion that the mental stimulation will divert her attention from the leg. Also, she thinks it will be better to wait until her balance is back to normal. She goes to the AV's this Monday and hopefully will only be there a week, maximum.


Pat

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#224355 - 08/13/10 03:41 AM Re: Cleo - Stick Training ? [Re: Cleo's Mom]  
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So let's do what your AV suggested and get back at it when Cleo comes home.

You might want to join one of the free clicker groups Pat and get some suggestions. Think about what you want to teach her to do. Have a plan.

We'll all think positive with you Pat!!!

Bev


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