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#219388 - 04/14/10 06:55 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Daaaniel Offline
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I've read up to chapter 2! :-)

Daniel

#219439 - 04/15/10 02:19 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: Daaaniel]  
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If there are no questions, everyone please read chapter 3 and tell me what you got from this chapter. It is extremely important to understand what an antecedent is.

Bev


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#219441 - 04/15/10 02:56 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally
If there are no questions, everyone please read chapter 3 and tell me what you got from this chapter. It is extremely important to understand what an antecedent is.Bev


Hey Bev...been busy so I have not looked up that other term you mentioned...I do know that intermitent reinforcment, for example, would be my sometimes going to O when he screams for attention in the cage and sometimes not going to O when he screams for attention in the cage...not what you want to do...

I believe an antecedent, reduced to its simpilest defination, would be an event or occurance which precedes "targeted" behavior...not always as easy to identify as one may think since so many events or occurances can induce behavior...like O, for example, who I believe may scream at any point in time for a variety of different reasons...not always for attention..

But some are readily identifiable like trying to "adjust" toys in Buddis cage while she is in there...I know I will get bit...so I only do it when she is out of the cage...

I will go find that other word now and edit the post...ok, just goggled it and it is interesting...appears to be a term that combines reinforcment of both 1) behaviors you wish to illiminate as well as 2) behavior you wish to replace it with... As defined, differential reinforcement of incompatible behavior (DRI) involves reinforcing behaviors that are physically incompatible with the undesired target behavior.

Again, as defined, when a DRI involves reinforcing alternative, desirable behaviors it is called differential reinforcement of alternate behavior (DRA) because DRI involves reinforcing behaviors that are physically incompatible with the undesired target behavior. That is, a DRI provides reinforcement for behaviors whose display makes it physically impossible to display of the inappropriate behavior.

So, if I understand this correctly, DRI/DRA as applied to O's screaming would mean to reinforce "quiet" which is "physically incompatible" with screaming?

How in the world do you reinforce omission...not doing something?

Last edited by GregM; 04/15/10 03:10 PM.
#219443 - 04/15/10 03:47 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: GregM]  
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You don't. Not doing something is not a behaviour. It's call the "Dead Man's Rule". If a dead man can do it, it's not a behaviour. You need to focus on what you want your bird to do.

Quiet is really not a good substitution. It's better if you find an acceptable sound that is reinforcing like that chatter that I heard O do. He can't scream if he is chattering. He can't scream if he is playing.

Remember this Greg, if a behaviour is maintained or increases, it IS being reinforced regardless of what you think. This is written in stone.

Now Google "contiguity and contingency".

Also I just bought a wonderful book on operant conditioning(new out), are you up to buying this book and reading it? So far, I've found it to be very easy to understand and I find I am really, really enjoying it and I'm at page 35 and I only started it yesterday on the subway.

If others are interested, let me know and I will post a link to the book.

Bev

Greg, you are really making me think here and taking to this like a duck to water. Good for you, Greg, good for you!!!! And good for me too. LOL

Last edited by ZazuSally; 04/15/10 03:49 PM. Reason: added something

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#219446 - 04/15/10 04:59 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally
You don't. Not doing something is not a behaviour. It's call the "Dead Man's Rule". If a dead man can do it, it's not a behaviour. You need to focus on what you want your bird to do...Now Google "contiguity and contingency".


Yes, I do remember a reference to the dead man rule in the book...

I understand that I need to subsitute a more desirable behavior (verbal chatter) for the screaming...when he is out on the tree and screams (presumambly for attention) I get him to change his tune before I approach him, for any reason...when he goes in the cage and screams (again for attention) I like to allow him to spend some time in there screaming with no response at all...when there is a lull in the screams I will then talk to him, get the verbal chatter and then make a big fuss and take him out...

I have come to realize the difference in his screams...this morning while he was on the tree he screamed a few times and I knew he actually wanted to go in the day cage to eat...he was hungry and actually telling me he was hungry and knew where his food was...even if the antecedent (reason) for the screaming is different, I should still get the verbal chatter from him? In other words, never go to him when he screams, regardless of the reason, without getting it to change to verbal chatter or I am reinforcing the screams?

More fancy terms! Simply stated (temporal)contiguity is the amount of time that lapses between the behavior and the reinforcement (the shorter the better) and the goal, of course, is the realization by the bird (causal impression) that the reinforcement is contingent on the behavior...only then does behavior change...

I always just referred to that as "association" but contingent is actually more accurate...

#219447 - 04/15/10 05:00 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Antecedents are the events that occur right before (either positive or negative) behavior happens, in direct response to the antecedent.

By changing the antecedent (our approach to any interaction), we can modify the behavior, and ultimately change the outcome of our interactions with our birds.


Deborah
A Too is not a pet, it is a choice for life!


#219452 - 04/15/10 05:32 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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Greg, my birds always have access to food - always. You can take away a hunger "scream" simply by changing the antecedent which is allowing O to always have access to food except when he is sleeping at night. I give my birds a big snack at 8:30 pm just before I put them to bed. Then you have eliminated that problem, right?

Greg, I want you to try playing some games (energy burners)with him to see if that helps before you do what you need to do. Can you post a picture of how his cage is set up? Is this where he spends the most time. I'd like to see what you have in there?

If it is your attention he is after and you go to him while he is screaming for "ANY" reason, you are reinforcing the screaming because you are giving him what he wants - you. Now if he is chattering and you go and spend some time with him and actively play with him for a few minutes and make a big fuss over him, you are reinforcing the chattering. If he gets a bigger paycheck for chattering than he does screaming, eventually he will chatter instead of scream to get your attention but you have to be consistent and there will be set backs. The reward is contingent on you getting the wanted behaviour. If you do this, you get that.

Greg, do you want the name of the book?

Deborah, excellent description, do you understand what you've said?

Bev

Last edited by ZazuSally; 04/15/10 05:54 PM. Reason: added something

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#219456 - 04/15/10 06:48 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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GregM it may be easier if you keep your replies to the thread for "O" and leave that thread for helping "O" so that your not posting all over the place.JMO anyway. This thread is more geared for people that are reading the book and trying to learn from the book and my understanding is you are taking over it for helping "O".


Jan

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#219460 - 04/15/10 08:18 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally
Greg, my birds always have access to food - always...Greg, I want you to try playing some games (energy burners)with him to see if that helps before you do what you need to do. Can you post a picture of how his cage is set up? Is this where he spends the most time. I'd like to see what you have in there?...Greg, do you want the name of the book?
Bev


I think Jan may be right so I will post response in O's thread...I will take name and author of book...

#219462 - 04/15/10 08:27 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally

Deborah, excellent description, do you understand what you've said?

Bev


I believe I do lol, you have been an awesome teacher!

Antecedent = my initial approach and interaction with Ozzy, will determine how Ozzy responds. I can therefore modify my own initial approach, environment, or situation, to help create a more positive outcome. Changing Ozzy is never the question, it is always about how "We" interact and provide for him. We are very accustomed to his moods, needs and wants. We make sure that all of them are being met. If and when he acts out (which is rare), we know immediately to look at what is happening and then alter our own actions or surroundings to create a better situation for all.

We are also very consistent in our positive interactions with Ozzy. We fill up that trust account daily! He has never known anything but trust and love his entire time with us. Ozzy shows a great deal of trust in us due to this, even in very new situations.



Deborah
A Too is not a pet, it is a choice for life!


#219464 - 04/15/10 09:24 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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You sure do understand, Deborah!!!

Good job!!!!

Bev


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#219638 - 04/20/10 12:59 AM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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Antecedent 1 - I place Simon on his chair in the kitchen to "help" with the dishes.

I 'chatter' to him & tell him what I'm doing, etc.

He 'chatters', dances, preens, or plays 'peek-a-boo' on the chair seat.

This may or may not escalate to whistling or 'singing' back & forth.



Antecedent 2 - I place Simon on his chair in the kitchen to "help" with the dishes.

I start immediately with the work at hand, leaving him to amuse himself.

Simon screams for attention.

I whistle or sing to him - he whistles or chatters back to me - he stops screaming.


I'm not sure that I "get" what antecedent is but the term "setting the stage" is what I see in my mind.

#219652 - 04/20/10 03:40 AM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: Liisa B]  
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Good try, Liisa considering we haven't gone far enough in the book to give you the tools you need so a pat on the back for trying!!!

When doing a Functional Analysis, we always start with the behaviour we want to change first.

The antecedent is what happens immediately before the behaviour occurs and I mean immediate.

So what is the behaviour you want to change?

Bev


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#219654 - 04/20/10 04:58 AM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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In this case - it would be my not chatting, whistling to him & encouraging him to engage in acceptable vocalizations...

#219669 - 04/20/10 02:22 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: Liisa B]  
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Not doing something is not a behaviour. Remember that is the Dead Man's Rule. If a dead man can do it, it's not a behaviour. What is the problem behaviour?

Functional Analysis:

Background -

Antecedent -

Behaviour -

Consequence -

Possible Future Behaviour -

Just fill in the behaviour you want to change in Simon.

Think about this now. Behaviour is something that you can clearly observe and measure.

Bev


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#219675 - 04/20/10 03:44 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Simon screams for attention.

I whistle to him.

He whistles back.

#219677 - 04/20/10 04:26 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: Liisa B]  
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So the whistle is an acceptable vocalization for you?

Bev


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#219685 - 04/20/10 07:26 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Oh Yes smile

#219687 - 04/20/10 07:56 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: Liisa B]  
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If the whistling earns him a higher paycheck than the screaming, it should decrease. If it doesn't, it is still being reinforced. Does this make sense?

Once we get through the book, we'll see how things are going and if you are still having problems, maybe a one on one would be the way to go, OK?

Bev

So what is the target behaviour?


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#219691 - 04/20/10 10:06 PM Re: Understanding ABA - April 11, 2010 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Do we read chapter 4, too?

Daniel

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