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#211584 - 11/02/09 08:37 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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The most important thing of all Deb is that you are here trying to build a new relationship with your birds using ABA.

And the second most important thing of all to remember is that it takes time to learn and implement ABA and that it is a life long journey because behaviour changes all the time so we must also learn how to adapt to those changes.

Looking forward to hearing how things are going but we are here if you need us.

Bev

Last edited by ZazuSally; 11/02/09 08:41 PM.

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#212932 - 11/30/09 04:50 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Hi There, We've been away traveling for a bit but are almost ready to head back to DE. While I have been vacationing the birds have been visiting others as well.
I found out that they ARE just like kids, they put on the good act. My family has had a blast messing with them.
Kernal has done his roll over act for everyone. He steps up most of the time to come out, goes in fairly easy with out a fuss. I have been using a high back chair that he can roost on instead of being on me. He is very interactive with pretty much everyone he comes in contact with. Will fly from room to room to check out who is doing what. Likes to get in everyones buisness.
Gretta is still taking it slow but every now and again surprises me like finding her way to where everyone is gathered in another room. Or trying to attack the newest addition (abandoned kitten).
It was nice when I came back and went to see them they jumpped up and down and screamed so loud. I'm glad they associate with me. They are so compatable with the rest of my family & their pets. Even hubbs is starting to shift. I dropped a hint for a custom stainless cage for here when we visit. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
Now if I can just keep the good habits in line when we get back home. Every-one here has accused me of spoiling the birds so we shall see.
Looking forward to getting back to routine.

#212946 - 11/30/09 05:14 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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That is an excellent update, Deb. If you use positive reinforcement in all areas, you can generalize a behaviour or behaviours and that is get the behaviour requested in any location. So teaching behaviours in different locations should be part of a training or teaching program.

Does this make sense, Deb? Not sure if I explained it well enough.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#213146 - 12/05/09 09:39 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Yes Bev it makes perfect sense. Just like us the training never stops.
I have realy been enjoying watching Gretta and Kernal blosom in this enviroment. There are around 7-10 animals of assorted varieties around at all times so it can be quite tireing keeping everyone safe.
Gretta and Kernal cornered the kitten the other day when I took a plate to the kitchen. Gretta has become very assertive not agressive and has aproached hubbs a few times. He smiles and talks nice to her. I've stressed to not leave her unattended and if you go to the bathroom cover the computer. Everytime he leaves she jumps in his seat. She honks when he comes and goes and puts her crest up for him.Still not much to do with me. I guess I just am to laid back for these guys at my place. They are truely clowns here with all the interactions with people and stuff.
Sadly all good things must come to an end.
I went to bed at 5 Am (unfortunately) By 11 someone had unhooked the lock on Gretta's door. Rehooked it mind you and opened & unlocked the door to the room where they sleep at night. When I came out to see what the noise was I was informed that she had to go even if it was snowing out because she ate the wood work across the top and bottom of 2 windows. After things calmed down and I happened to mention all the details I think hubbs understands now it was his Mom. She has dementia and I told him yesterday be on guard that she is getting ready to have an episode. Alas he quieted down and cleaned up the mess of course with a promise that Gretta will leave after the weather clears and not come back. So we are off to DE again.
The weirdest thing is both of these 2's love my hubbs or at least like to go to him and be around him and he just ain't a bird person. But untill today he was like melted butter with them.

#213273 - 12/08/09 05:35 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Deb, has hubby calmed down? I've given up hope of ever having anything without cockatoo beak marks in it. LOL When all is said and done, it's just stuff although I can see how wood work damage would really suck. There are times when I get really ticked when one of my birds (mostly Zazu) destroys something but I realize it's my fault for not putting it away. There have been times when I've left them out of their cages and miraculously came home to find everything untouched. I still can't figure that one out. LOL

Gretta and Kernal have come a long way!!

Bev

Last edited by ZazuSally; 12/08/09 05:36 PM.

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#213284 - 12/08/09 08:16 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Hey Bev,
Nah he won't get over it. He's one of those people that still has his squezze monkey with the pop out eyes in the original box. He isn't hateful though.
Gretta just isn't allowed out with out me being in the room with her. Considering this was one of the original rules (duhhh). He's having a rough time admitting the severity of his Mom's illness. Hence me staying at one of our retirement homes. Never 100% sure but after reviewing all events that day 4 out of 5 of us believe Gretta was set up to get me to leave.
Luckly we had a freind show up who needed a place to stay with her dog for a few nights. Like I said in older post we don't turn nobody away. So for today we are still in Maryland. With an extra body and yet another dog. hehehe Life is fun.
Yes Kernal and Gretta have come along way. They are florishing with all the interaction. Gotta run till later. Thanks for asking. Deb

#214626 - 01/04/10 08:23 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Hi there! Just an update. We are back in DE and I think I have brought a strange bird home. My Gretta is so happy to be here (I think). WE had company a few days after we got home but once they left. My Gretta girl has taken some real changes upon herself.
Kernal now steps up to go in and out and doesn't come rushing out as soon as you open the cage. He gives you time to put put your hand out for step up. We leave the bird room and Gretta follows. I feel like the pide piper. Same routine going to bed at night she gets right in her cage.
Here's the icing on the cake... she follows me through the house during the day, comes in the room I am in and chooses to sit next to me. Of course if I sneeze, move cough or breathe heavy it starts all over. Watching her bounce on the sofa & chairs in the livingroom after company left was like a five year old childs first Christmas morning with presents. I love it!!!!
Bev, I have found the toughest chalenge in making myself of valu to Gretta. Not food motivated, doesn't want to be touched, don't want to be in close personal space and of course the fear of hands and people make it hard to interact.
The route I have chosen seems to be working but with the lack of experience perhaps you can add direction to head off any unwanted outcome. I have been sitting on my hands or using them as little as possible with the exception of clapping and cheering her on and of course feeding. Praise and encouragement seem to be the only way to get to her for now.
While we were gone she did take it upon herself to guard the cage area and chase a kitten out of the room a few times, she also climbed up on the sofa next to the dog, when the dog remained in her path she pulled a hair on the dogs tail (what she has seen the other bird and animals do) and the dog moved out of her way. Gretta seems to be comming out of her shell a good bit. I'm not sure that I like the yells everytime I leave the room but hey I just call back. Thanks and Happy New Year to all. Deb
By the way after double locking cages and the birds still escaped the MIL was caught sneeking into release the birds, so hubbs kinda backed off being grumpy about the chewing incident.
I realize now that when they first came here perhaps I did let them rule the nest. Now they go to bed between 8:30 & 9 get their min 10 hours.Follow a few request/rules.

#214636 - 01/05/10 04:25 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Deb, you are on the right path. The thing about people learning how to do a Functional Analysis and UNDERSTANDING why and what they are doing to facilitate behaviour modification/change is key. I can help people get across the river but if they want to be able to do it for themselves, they need to learn how to build a boat just as they need to learn how to do a Functional Analysis so that they can deal with any problem behaviours that might crop up. You can also use it to get more of the behaviours you want to see. You can reinforce calm behaviour with Gretta. What does she do when you clap and cheer? Gretta follows you through the house, chooses to sit next to you? What would she do if you put a favourite treat in your hand and did not move your hand. Have you tried that? You give her the choice of whether or not she wants the treat. Now if she does come to get it, you must now do anything. Do not move a muscle. She must be allowed to take the treat and move away. This is all about giving her choices. Make sense?

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. Way to go, Deb!!! Give yourself a pat on the back and hubby too for calming down. Why does your MIL let them out of their cages?

Bev

Praise and encouragement can be powerful reinforcers, Deb. Don't you like to be told how wonderful you are? LOL I certainly do, but unfortunately, we humans don't do enough of it.


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#214814 - 01/09/10 04:22 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Hey Bev-
Thanks for the input. Yeah Gretta is following me, I love it that she wants to be near. I'm glad our traveling didn't set her back. I have put treats down and providing Kernal dosen't get to it first Gretta will take it and run away with it. She will also take a treat from me after she has been out for an hour or so (takes a bit for her to feel secure) I must be sure that she is in a secure state when I cheer her on otherwise she trembles and runs away. If she is feeling safe she will raise her crest and jump, dance, yell & hop all around. I have found that she can easily get overwhelmed so it has to be small bits at a time. Like today I had company come in and she came out, stood in the kitchen looked at each person, whent to the living room & hung out about 45 minutes. Opps too much action for the girl so back to her room she went. Stayed out playing about 3 hours then went in her cage.
As for the MIL she doesn't like me and doesn't want me there (my house), she was ready for me to leave but hubbs & I were having a great time so that was the only wedge she could find to drive between us. I also caught her being not nice to Gremlin the dog. That's when she started on the birds and we soon left. Oh well her loss. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
Thanks Bev for all you do. Deb

#214833 - 01/09/10 07:32 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Deb, it really sounds like you are on the right track with Gretta. Just give it time and allow her to learn to trust you. As long as you allow her to make choices about what she wants to do, you can't lose.

You are right, Deb, her loss!!!

How do you feel about the way things are going with the birds?

Bev


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#214993 - 01/11/10 07:52 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Hi Bev, I am delighted in the way things are going with K & G for the most part. Some days it's a little overwhelming. Kernal is showing as many new behaviors as Gretta. Their intelligence NEVER seems to stop amazing me! Company left today and before they were out of the driveway Gretta was out and about being happy and not as skiddish. Judging by her actions she seems very much more at ease with just me around, so to my eye that is proof in the pudding.
I have to get out and get a bigger cage for them. A friend of mine is holding it for me but I won't be able to get it from her until the weather is gonna be good for a few days, as it is a few hundred miles away. But with Kernals new activity level he is going to have to spend a little more time in a cage. Due to their taste in remodeling I have a few serious projects to do now. And with running saws & power tools he can't be at large (haha).
He did the foot chasing thing with my freind yesterday and he swooped and bit her (more like a peck) 2 or 3 times. I'm thinking that since she had white socks on and white seems to put them on alert when she started bobbing her foot in the rocking chair and it caught his eye he wanted the trespasser gone. I gave her red socks and once she changed all was well. I wear white but I don't bob up and down.
Kernal is a G2 and his face is getting really dark peach underneath and by the corners of his mouth. His taste for foods has changed a small bit, Gretta is steady chewing & digging under pillows so I'm guessing it's that time again. I loaded up on 70% off wooden Christmas crafts so they have been tearing them up. They are going to bed earlier but keeping up with them is a bit tough with my medical conditions. They really are like too year old children and being childless it takes me back to the baby sitting for friends days. I would drop from being tiered when they went home. Ahh same thing. I'm hopeing that a bigger cage will give me an hour or 2 nap time when needed.
Over all I love my new buds and believe that we are going to ALL be very close one day.
Do you know of anyone else who doesn't want company because they just want alone time with the flock or am I being goofey?
Deb

#215009 - 01/11/10 10:07 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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No in truth Deb, I prefer my bird's company over pretty much everyone unless there is chocolate involved. LOL How many people do you know that make you laugh (and pull your hair out) as often as your birds do.

I think you have changed more than Elliot and Kernal and that's what it is all about.

Good job, Deb!!!!

Bev


Last edited by ZazuSally; 01/11/10 10:08 PM. Reason: added something

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#215206 - 01/14/10 08:29 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Screams of JOY!!!!
Kernal steps up to get out of the cage. He will wait a short period for me to offer my hand before he comes out and has been doing this the whole year so far (2010).
Here is the kicker... GRETTA ATE OUT OF MY OPEN HAND AND CAME BACK 4 times ++.
Finaly it may not be the best but she likes peanut butter chips. So now that I know she truely loves a certin food we will hopefully make tracks. It's hard to split one but possible. Anyway I put stuff in my hand and opened it flat, stretched it over the arm of the sofa and put snacks closer to me so she had a choice either my hand or pass my hand. She first chose the latter. When she saw the chips in my hand she went for them very slowly. I didn't blink, breath or move. After she took a few pieces like the 4th time I moved my thumb and she stopped then continued so after almost an hour and 4 chips later she was standing in front of my hand eating with fingers in differnt positions. Man what joy in my heart!!!
Yes Bev I think I have changed as well. But that's what education, love and attitude does it allows us to grow and be better. Thank You to all who have helped on mytoos both past and present as reading the older posts are like an endless book. And to Bev and Janet. My heart felt thanks. I'll be here again and again. Deb
Gotta go change my britches I was so ecited I wee'd.....

#215211 - 01/14/10 10:25 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Deborah, that is fantastic news!!! Might I suggest that you turn those peanut butter chips into tiny pieces and try and switch to a healthier treat ASAP. How about peanut butter in a little spoon or something that you can hold in your hand?

The people who truly want a better relationship with their birds Deb, are the ones willing to do the work and in every single case that there is a major change in behaviour, it is never the bird's behaviour but the human who has done the changing. When we ask, not demand, when we reward not expect, when we respect not take then and only then will we will get the behaviours we want and it is a win-win for all involved.

There is no such thing as a bad bird, only a human who does not know any better. ABA can give them the tools they need but those tools have to be earned. I think the main thing is a willingness to let go of all preconceived notions of what humans should expect/take from animals. Would a human being push their hand into the chest of a dinasaur to make them step up? I don't think so because they would be dinner. I don't know why we think it is OK to use any other method other than positive reinforcement to get the behaviours that we want from our birds. Behaviours that are freely given. Doesn't get much better than that and you are seeing that Deb, that's huge.

Keep up the good work, Deb but please try to change that reinforcer as soon as you can. Those peanut butter chips are nothing but sugar.

Bev


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#215215 - 01/15/10 12:42 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Hey Bev,
I am planning on changing the chips. Thankfully they aren't something I keep on hand. They were in one of those 100 calorie snack bags. Other than ice cream it's the only thing I have seen her go after. The ice cream was a while back (she stole the container). Gretta doesn't go for fruit with the exception of fresh bananas. She won't touch a dried fruit or chip of any kind other than to toss it. She doesn't really care for veggies either. I'm trying to figure some things I can toss together to broaden her desires for variety. Girlfriend obviously has a sweet tooth. She does like some pastas but not the veg. type. I'm thinking corn bread with an assortment of stuff and maybe getting 1 more small bag with the peanut butter chips and melting all 6 of them and swirling it through that should be enough taste to get her interested. I'll try the peanutbutter and fresh peanuts with the recipe first. At least I have a place to start. She's been so withdrawn until recently.
Oh and just a quickie I know you're busy and juggle alot but I don't have an Elliot and there is another member that goes by Deborah that's why I use Deb. Just so we don't get to innertwined. Thanks for all of your encouragement no matter whoes' name it's under wink

#215219 - 01/15/10 01:57 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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I was just testing you Deb, of course, it's Mutt and Jeff. LOL

So you can use fresh banana. My birds love fresh cherries. I pit them first. Whatever the bird enjoys, you can use as currency or the reward for wanted behaviour. There are so many things you could try. Hemp seed, safflower seed, tiny pieces of almond, brazil nut, walnut, pine nut, pistachio, pecan, you just have to get a bunch of things and just try them. What is in her daily diet and what does she eat first?

Bev


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#215225 - 01/15/10 02:47 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Bev- I have tried all you listed but the pine nuts. I have been looking for them as you mentioned your bird loves them. I have also tried a huge variety of fresh produce even going as far as to buy stuff I've never tried and trying it like weird things from the Asian & Latin markets.
Their daily diet consist of pellets available all the time, then for breakfast it's a grain like oats or grits & fruit maybe papaya, apple, banana, orange something I know she will eat. Through out the day I try to make 2 or 3 veggies available like kale, carrots and corn. It changes every day (what ever I'm having)
I also offer a small bit of whatever protien I am eating like beans or sometimes egg white or fish.
Sometimes I hang a whole coconut for them to tear up. In the summer I had fresh tomatoes and she would go nuts on them daily but won't have anything to do with store bought ones. I have tried smearing assorted nut butters (home made) on toys and stuff to get them interested. And not to often I'll give them seeds. They were on a seed only diet when I got them and it took a bit to get them on pellets. So I try to give seeds and nuts that are not in a pet mix but for humans so they don't get a dish of sunflower seeds. I haven't given hazel nuts to them because of the recalls but all the others I have. She don't even like cashews.
She is such a picky eater somedays she wants a whole banana other days not at all. I have asked a few times about a U2's appitite because when ya look at her size then Kernal he's a G2 he eats like a pig probaly 3x's more than she does but he is more active than she is. He turns down nothing she likes almost nothing. I was giving warms breakfast but the posts that I have read advised cutting the warm foods back when they are showing nesting behaviour so that is on hold for now.
When they come out in the morning at like 9 often she won't eat for an hour or 2 so by then Kernal has chomped through everything (not her stuff just his, mine, the dogs) and she just takes what she wants out of her dish a bite here and there. Never enthustastic like Kernal or like when she took the snack today.
I've also tried cereals both natural and sweetened (fruit loops) no, trail mix nah, tried millet, breads, and the time I tried beets Kernal looked like a vampire bird LOL. And also I have tried assorted baby foods.
I've got to admit my eating habits have changed for the better with them but the stores are running out of stuff to try. But what kind of chef would I be if I didn't continue educating myself in the market of untried foods.
I have come to the conclusion that Gretta is a hard nut to crack but she'll blossom. Deb

#215226 - 01/15/10 03:09 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Can you do me a favour, Deb and keep a log for 3 days of what she does and what she eats. What time does she get up? What does she do throughout the day? Does she play with toys. What is in her cage? Does she go into her cage on her own? Do you play games? Do you sing to her or dance with her? I need you to build me a picture so I can "see" through your words what her world is on a daily basis. Can you do that for me? If you have pictures of her cage to post, that would be good too or at least a link.

All living entities have things they value. Sometimes it's easy to figure out, sometimes not. We just have to become good detectives, Deb. What is that you give her for breakfast again? And you said she really likes it?

Bev

Small bits of sunflower seed are not a bad thing.


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#215237 - 01/15/10 06:35 AM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: ZazuSally]  
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She will be getting a new cage McCaw size the 2 week of Feb. For now she only has her sleeping cage here that's why they are out all the time and they have their own room. I broke my camera but will try to get some pics. Do you want me to send the log to you in an e-mail so as not to just hog space here, or maybe post it and it can help someone else??
She loves warm breakfast of oatmeal or warm grits and warm juice for breakfast.
She used to sit on a chair and go to her cage right after she ate untill about 2 weks ago she started jumping in the sunshine and over the patterns on the rug in the living room. It has taken her since May to get the courage to come in the room with me. That's why I'm so happy. Things of valu I would say are her cage, Kernal, and it's a tie for 3rd this week between me & her room. So I'm definitly moving on up. She is afraid of toys so I leave them around her room and then she finaly gets to it. I'll explain all that through the log. THANKS BEV!!!

#215246 - 01/15/10 03:05 PM Re: Functional Analysis - September 20, 2009 [Re: FunnyFarm]  
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Deb, do you see what you are doing here? Instead of expecting Gretta to understand our world, you are figuring out her world and what she needs. You are going to her instead of expecting her to come to you and I mean that behaviour wise, know what I mean? That is huge, Deb, huge! When you begin to figure out what it is she values, you can use that to your advantage. For example, you could sit with that bowl of oatmeal in your hand, let her come to you to eat and just sit quietly while she eats. Then you are pairing yourself with something she values, the oatmeal. If you always pair yourself with things she values, eventually you become valuable to her as the bringer of good things. Get it?

Yes, I think it helps to share here, Deb, that way others can learn.

Bev


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