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#209221 - 09/18/09 05:15 AM Eddie..E2 Aggression  
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Doubleyolk Offline
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Thought I would start a section for Saturday. I'm hoping to have Eddie step up and not bite. I have been able to interact more with him lately with my glasses off. I have got to the point that I can offer smaller pieces of reward without getting bit.

#209228 - 09/18/09 02:22 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Joe, "not bite" is not a behaviour. There is a rule that if a dead man can do it, it's not behaviour. Biting is a behaviour. We are only going to work on one behaviour at a time so when doing a Functional Analysis, we must have the target behaviour first. Caregivers will say I want my bird to: not scream, not bite, not chew up the furniture. These are not behaviours. The question I always ask is: What do you want your bird to do?

Once you understand how to do a Functional Analysis, then you can implement it for other behaviour change/modification.

So you are making progress and that's a good thing.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#209265 - 09/19/09 01:45 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Doubleyolk Offline
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I need or should I say hope that I can get him to step up so he can go on playstand,shower(which he loves)or just hold him.

I have been able to accomplish this with my other six birds and some in a few weeks and my GW took about a year,but Eddie has been nearly six years.

#209290 - 09/19/09 10:04 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Bev,here is where I am at with Eddie the last couple of weeks. The only reinforcer I have is the banana chip.

Over the years we have been able to teach him a few things that he enjoys doing so I've tried to build on these.

When we say "Yea Eddie" and clap he will turn his head and look at the ceiling,crest up and clacks his beak. Now when I do this I give him a chip.

When we say "upside down" he climb to the top of the cage and hang and say "upside down". Now I give him a chip and he is happy.

He plays a game in the morning at feeding time which is not fun,he digs in on his perch and will rip the dish from my hand when I go to slide it in his holder. I have been giving him a chip before I slide the dish in which at first he would drop and grab the dish. He now gets so few chips he won't drop it to get the dish,he will wait for me to push the dish in and drop it in the dish to save. Yes,he is starting to save them in his food dish.

He tried to bite my fingers when I first started offering the chip and I would walk away not giving one to him. He caught on to this one real fast and now takes it easy.

So,I think I'm my way as far as him knowing that the chip is a reward.

He was a plucker,mutilator when I got him and he stopped about two months after I got him and never did it again. I would think he feels safe and likes being here or he would still be doing it or start up again........maybe.

#209298 - 09/20/09 05:46 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Joe, what does Eddie's regular daily diet consist of?

Bev

When you get any kind of progress using positive reinforcement Joe, it is huge for you and for Eddie!!!


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#209302 - 09/20/09 03:08 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Eddies diet consists of 60% Zupreem Natural pellets,Veggie breads,fruit breads,pasta,bean,rice mix and about 2 tbls of Higgins Sunburst mixed in with his pellets. Eddie never has been a nut eater of any kind and when offered he will throw them on the floor. His weight is always at 534-538 grms and his yearly blood work is always in range.

Last edited by Doubleyolk; 09/20/09 03:12 PM.
#209315 - 09/21/09 03:25 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Joe, he eats all those different kinds of foods and the only reinforcer you think you have is a banana chip? I can see lots of reinforcers in the list you gave me. Lots. LOL

Now the question is "which ones are his favourite?"


Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#209322 - 09/21/09 05:34 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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In reading your threads on ABA you stated "there is no point in trying to use a favorite food if that food is being given through out the day".

Eddie is not a food motivated bird so do I stop feeding him a food from my list?

Why do I need more than one reinforcer if the one I'm using seems to be doing the job?

#209329 - 09/21/09 02:43 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Right, so in order to increase the foods value to your bird, you need to remove it from the regular diet. He is not "food motivated" because he is getting all kinds of different foods in his regular diet.

Joe, if you just sat down and had a big dinner, the chances of anyone getting you to do something for food is pretty slim, right? But if they asked you to do something before dinner and the reward was dinner, you'd do it because you were hungry. Now let me just say that food should NEVER be withheld to teach a bird something. It is not necessary. When I do clicker training sessions in the morning, I take advantage of the fact that even though my birds have access to pellets and water, the pine nuts I offer have much more value to them because they do not get them except for requested behaviour.

Joe, it is always good to have more than one tool (food reinforcer) in your toolbox in case one loses its value. If the banana chip loses its value to Eddie, what then?

Chocolate is a huge reinforcer for me but if I've just eaten a pound of it, not so much. Make sense?

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#209341 - 09/21/09 07:12 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Yes,it does makes sense.I will try using the breads as a reinforcer and see what happens.

#211808 - 11/07/09 09:42 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Update on Eddy.

I have made some progress and the treats have been working well. His aggression is where I have made the most progress,but stepping up is still a no go. He has learned that negative behavior results in not getting a treat and it has been weeks since he has attempted to bite me.

The step up situation has gone from trying to attack my hand to moving away from it and watching for my next move.

He is more relaxed when I'm around his cage and when I open the cage door to let him out he leisurely comes out now instead of a mad dash to get to the top. At night when it's time to go in the cage and I take out the banana chip container he heads back in the cage next to the food dish anxiously waiting for the biggest piece of the day.

#211812 - 11/07/09 04:33 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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That's awesome!! Good Work


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#211816 - 11/07/09 06:39 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Chewy]  
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That is fantastic Joe!

Quote:
He has learned that negative behavior results in not getting a treat and it has been weeks since he has attempted to bite me.


In keeping with the principles of ABA, I would like to rearrange that statement:

"He has learned that positive behavior results in getting a treat". smile

He is making progress in stepping up - he's just not all the way there yet. Moving away rather than biting is a huge step Joe! Keep up the good work.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#211857 - 11/09/09 04:09 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: EchosMom]  
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Joe, excellent work. Keep it up.

I just want to give you an example of capturing a behaviour and then reinforcing it. Yesterday Zazu flew over to my shoulder because I had an apple and she loves apple. I was ignoring her so she gently nibbled on my ear. Then I thought why don't I see if I can capture that behaviour because it's kind of cute like ringing the dinner bell. I would not recommend this to anyone, Zazu has earned shoulder privileges. Anyway, when she nibbled gently, she got to bite off a piece of my apple. If she got too rough, she didn't get any and within 5 minutes, she gently nibbled on my ear lobe about 10 times. Two I considered too rough and she got nothing and it is amazing how quickly she picked up that she had to nibble gently to get a bite of apple. So at that moment, Zazu's currency was apple and I used that to get the behaviour I wanted which was a gentle ear nibble.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#211861 - 11/09/09 05:10 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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My bird does the gentle ear nibble when she wants something and we went through something similar so that she would not nibble too hard. It is kind of sweet when she does it because she is really trying to be oh so delicate.


Whoever coined the term "bird brain" was probably projecting.
#211896 - 11/10/09 10:44 AM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: EchosMom]  
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Originally Posted By: EchosMom
That is fantastic Joe!

Quote:
He has learned that negative behavior results in not getting a treat and it has been weeks since he has attempted to bite me.


In keeping with the principles of ABA, I would like to rearrange that statement:

"He has learned that positive behavior results in getting a treat". smile





LOL....I guess being a optimist when talking about Eddie is something I need to learn.


Bev...My Greenwing had a bad habit of bluff biting and I would grab his beak and hold it tight. He doesn't like when I do this and now he will bow his head for a scratch.

#211902 - 11/10/09 03:22 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: Doubleyolk]  
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Joe, grabbing his beak is not the way to go. The first thing I would ask is why was he bluff biting? Probably because you were asking him to do something he didn't want to do. Making birds do things without giving them a choice is what gets us into trouble. You will be able to force them so many times but eventually you are going to get bitten. A better way to go is to set them up so they give you the behaviours you want and they get something out of it too just like Eddie and the banana chip. Our job is to figure out what each bird values and use that to our advantage just like you are doing with Eddie.

I used to think my birds should do what I wanted them to do when I wanted them to do it. I got bit alot. That just wasn't working for me. LOL So I learned about ABA. I rarely get bitten now and when I do, it's because I've dropped what I learned and reverted to my old ways. It's always a painful reminder but I am only human after all. The old ways come back less and less now because I really don't like getting bitten.

Can you not see the difference, Joe?

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#211903 - 11/10/09 03:59 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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My wife once told me I spoil our bird. I said why, because I let her do what she wants? My wife said yeah. I said, well then you must be spoiled as well. She is gradually beginning to understand.

There are times I ask the bird to do something I want her to do but she does it because I let her do what she wants so much more often.


Whoever coined the term "bird brain" was probably projecting.
#211904 - 11/10/09 05:20 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: JBryan]  
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JB, the funny thing is none of us like to be pushed around or made to do something yet we think it is OK to make animals do things they don't want to do.

I was one of the worse offenders. The difference between living with a bird that is cooperative because they want to do things for you and one that is forced to do things is HUGE.

Free choice is an amazing gift to your bird but you reap the benefits of giving your bird that a million times over. I used to spend so much time resenting my birds because they bit me. Now I understand I was the only one to blame and this too is huge.


Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#211910 - 11/10/09 06:53 PM Re: Eddie..E2 Aggression [Re: ZazuSally]  
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My GW is another one of my birds that was a product of abuse and I think the bluff biting was a defense of his. I agree on what you say about grabbing his beak,but I stopped that behavior and it's been three years since he has done it. His favorite saying is screaming"bad Ben" followed by crying and he has never heard anyone in my house say this.

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