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#202427 - 06/19/09 12:08 AM What type of behavior is this?  
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GregM Offline
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I have Buddy (MSC2) since Sept. 08 and he is about 2 years old...I know, still on our honeymoon. With all that I have read here I have been dreading sexual maturity and behavioral changes.

I noticed yesterday that after dinner, when Buddy is usually mellow, he started doing a lot of what I believe is called "displaying"; crest up, wings held away from body, rocking back and forth...even galloping across the table surface. He was a bit nippy as well when handling him and pinched me a little too hard, drawing blood...not an attack, just a nip...

Tonite I worked hard to change things up and distract him with some new toys after dinner...he was a little better and distracted, but did display during his approach to the toys and was aggressive...almost seemed to attack the toys...not his usual approach to play...even a little hissing, which he never does....

Is this just a mood or does displaying signify anything?


Last edited by GregM; 06/19/09 12:26 AM.
#202435 - 06/19/09 12:42 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: GregM]  
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Quote:
not his usual approach to play...even a little hissing, which he never does....


With all due respect, Greg, I don't think you've had Buddy long enough to know much about him and especially at that age. Displaying is a typical activity for most cockatoos although they are quite individual in their particular practices. One particular "good point" to this type of activity is that only comfortable and confident cockatoos engage in it. A happy cockatoo is a raucous, loud and gregarious animal. It's a paradox because the same activities that they finally feel safe enough to pursue are, many times, the same activities that find them looking for another home.

In our home, we learned to participate in these activities and even encourage them several times a day. They are a great source of exercise and it takes a little air out of their sails so that they relax more after. Always have a very healthy respect for an amped up cockatoo, however, because they can become quite wild in their behaviors. Never get within striking distance and that is further than you might think! LOL

Once again, it is probably too soon to be making generalizations about Buddy's behavior in less than a year. You will learn so much more as you go. I hope he's just a heanlthy, well adjusted cockatoo! Other members have been through this stage and it will be interesting to see some more replies.

#202439 - 06/19/09 01:01 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: Charlie]  
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We also do this numerous times per day and as Charlie said we keep out of striking distance! Not that Cassie is attacking per say just that she gets a little too rambunctious and beaky. She loves to attack her toys and has a grand time doing so in full display. Here she is playing on the floor with her toys. When she gets this active is when we have to be careful. She has a blast and burns up alot of energy doing so. Lots of screaming and chattering during this.
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb79/BE2Cassie/?action=view&current=85654B2B.jpg
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#202451 - 06/19/09 03:41 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: Charlie]  
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Originally Posted By: Charlie
[quote] In our home, we learned to participate in these activities and even encourage them several times a day. They are a great source of exercise and it takes a little air out of their sails so that they relax more after.


Thats funny as I usually discourage getting Buddy all wild as he is more prone to nip...maybe hs is actually achieving a new level of comfort after 9 months...

I did notice he was preening excessively so despite the fact I showered him yesterday morning I did so again tonite and it calmed him down...both his behavior and preening...

Would "beak bashing" against objects also be considered raucous, natural, Too behavoir?

Cassie is a pip! There is a BE2 in the pet store I get my fish food in and I stop in and play with her whenever I go in...what a character! Are BE2 know for their personalitys?

Last edited by GregM; 06/19/09 03:43 AM.
#202457 - 06/19/09 10:09 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: GregM]  
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Yup beak bashing is tons of fun also! We have one of those folding oak TV Tables that Cassie loves to run around the edge while tapping the top and whacking the sides of at full speed. I keep waiting for her to miscalculate and crash but so far she keeps her footing. As with all toos BE2s can be the energizer bunnies of the too world while others are laid back and quiet. Cassie is an energizer bunny! Constant motion and activity. Although if she meets a stranger she becomes shy and quiet. Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#202461 - 06/19/09 01:05 PM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Originally Posted By: BE2Cassie
As with all toos BE2s can be the energizer bunnies of the too world while others are laid back and quiet.


Yes, that is a perfect analogy...high energy! I also noticed that the feathers on the BE2 I visit feel flatter and smoother than my MSC2..is that just my imagination, too much powder down or is the BE2 plummage different?

#202483 - 06/19/09 09:42 PM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: GregM]  
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I haven't noticed if her plummage is different from other toos. I have noticed depending on her mood is how she holds her feathers. Sometimes very tight to the body and at others much looser and fluffy if that makes sense. When she's excited she either holds them tight or they are all standing on end increasing her size ten fold. I've also noticed the more showers she has the softer she is.
If she goes a couple of days without a shower the dust builds up and the water will bead like a ducks back and just roll off of her.
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#202560 - 06/21/09 07:26 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: GregM]  
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Boy do I need help. I have a Muloccan, 28 years old. I have had him for 25 years. I got him when I was very young(13yo) and was working at a pet store. He was miserable and I couldn't bear to watch him be teased by all the customers and children passing by.(He was not friendly and never failed to hiss at people)He quickly became attached to me, giving kisses(which he would never do to anyone else) I eventually talked my parents into letting me have him, and well, we are now in this situation.He has begun to self mutilate. We had an episode of plucking about 8 years ago, when I left home and was living in apartment and unable to take him. I then bought a house and brought him with me and plucking stopped. Now he has bypassed plucking and gone straight to mutilating. I am beside myself watching my poor baby mutilate and do not know what to do. I have seen the collars and have to admit, I think they are cruel. I think,maybe, what has started this was a combo of things. First, over the last several months, his screeching has become constant. Not your happy loud noises we all know so well, but blood curdling screeching. I hollar at him to stop when I can take no more. Then the last 2 weeks, my 17yo son, who he loves, has been working out of town 4 days a week. Is it just coincidence that his mutilating started when my son left? We have had 2 mutilaing incidents, one last week and now today. At what age do muloccans sexual mature? Does he need a mate? Can I rent one for the week?LOL I would love any advice if someone has any ideas.Sorry for the book, but I thought his history may be of importance. Sorry, I am new to this message board thing, and am having a hard time with abbreviations. What is BE2 and MSC2?

Last edited by stephaniew; 06/21/09 07:31 AM.
#202564 - 06/21/09 08:27 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: stephaniew]  
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The very first thing you need to do is have your bird seen by an avian vet for an exam and complete blood work up!

Your bird is sexually mature, and has been for quite some time - typically the onset of puberty is 5-8 yrs old for the larger, Indonesian cockatoos.

Once any underlying medical conditions have been eliminated, you can then reasonably assume that the mutilation is behavorial and begin exploring the why's and how to correct them. A bird that is self-mutilating needs to be under the close supervision of an avian vet. Please don't delay. Open wounds can lead to infection and must be treated.

As far as your general questions? A BE2 is a Bare-eyed cockatoo and and MSC2 is a medium sulphur crested. A Moluccan is an M2.

B&G - Blue and Gold Macaw
BC - Blue Crown Conure
BE2 - Bare Eyed Cockatoo
BFA - Blue Front Amazon
BP2 - Black Palm Cockatoo
BSL - Blue Streak Lory
C2 - Citron Cockatoo
CAG - Congo African Grey
CM - Catalina Macaw
D2 - Ducorps Cockatoo
DYH - Double Yellow Head Amazon
E2 - Eleanora Cockatoo
Ekkie - Eclectus
G2 - Goffins Cockatoo
GC(C) - Green Cheeked Conure
GCC - Gold Capped Conure
GCP - Grey Cheeked Parakeet
GE - Grand Eclectus
GSC - Greater Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
GW - Green Wing Macaw
HM - Hahns Macaw
HMC - Half Moon Conure
HYM - Hyacinth Macaw
IRN - Indian Ringneck Parakeet
Keet - Parakeet
LCA - Lilac Crowned Amazon
LSC - Lessor Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
M2 - Moluccan Cockatoo MBC - Maroon Belled Conure
MGM - Miligold Macaw
MM - Military Macaw
MM2 - Major Mitchell (Leadbeater) Cockatoo
MRHA - Mexican Red Head Amazon
MSC - Medium Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
OWA - Orange Winged Amazon
PC - Painted Conure
RB2 - Rose Breasted Cockatoo
RLA - Red Lored Amazon
RM - Ruby Macaw
RSE - Red Sided Eclectus
RV2 - Red Vented Cockatoo
SIE - Soloman Island Eclectus
SM - Scarlet Macaw
T2 - Triton Cockatoo
TAG - Timneh African Grey
Tiel - Cockatiel
Too/2 - Cockatoo
U2 - Umbrella Cockatoo
Umbie - Umbrella Cockatoo
VE - Vosmaeri's Eclectus
WFA - White Fronted Amazon
WF - White Faced Cockatiel
YCM - Yellow Collared Macaw
YNA - Yellow Naped Amazon


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#202715 - 06/23/09 06:14 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: EchosMom]  
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thank you for the info. I appreciate it. I have an appointment to see a avian vet. I see that yours has a sweater on. what stops her from chewing it off?

#202717 - 06/23/09 06:30 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: stephaniew]  
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Getting a functional sweater that worked for Noelle was trial and error. On this thread you can see the design the works for her. It did take alot of trial and error and attempts at keeping it on her with snap tape and velcro failed. After working with her an making lots of deposits into her trust account with me, I began hand-sewing the sweaters on her. On this thread you will find a short video of that.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=202629&page=20

I would not recommend that, unless you have a bird that is as trusting and cooperative as Noelle is. But for us, it worked beautifully. She's been dress free for over a week now (after 6 months) and not harming herself - so far so good and for each day that passes, I am thankful for. I do not believe that she is permanently out of the sweaters, but am happy for everyday that she is and doesn't harm herself. I alternate between conditioning her skin with pure Aloe and Emu oil. All of this should be discussed with your avian vet. Let us know how the appointment goes and I wish you and your bird nothing but the best.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#202734 - 06/23/09 03:05 PM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: EchosMom]  
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Oh EM~sweater free,yeah!!!!
Stephaniew, yes~avian vet right away!!! Does he have lots to Chew, getting enough sleep? Other home changes? (location,pets,sounds,diet, stress).
The vet must do a full work up.
Please keep us posted and what is his name???
Tania


Flock is Nina (U2), Tootsie (U2), Baby (LSC), Ruke (TAG),& Birdie (T2),
#202770 - 06/24/09 01:33 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: Rukesmom]  
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His name is charlie. We have had changes in the house. We added a ferret just before christmas, but I don't think he minds him. The ferret(smokey) actually got into his cage and was teasing charlie by licking his feet. Charlie, ever so gently, picked up the ferret by his head and relocated him, multiple times before I could get to cage. I went through a divorce new years eve, but he is happy about that. Husband was a jerk and the two of them did not get along. I personally think that my son working out of town 4 days a week has a lot to do with it. Charlie loves him and ironically, this began after the first week my son left. I also have to admit, and rest assured, the guilt is killing me, but he has been screaming, not happy screaming, but frustrated screamimg and I am truly at my mental end with it. I started yelling at him to stop and decided I couldn't take myself yelling at him all the time, so I started spraying him with a water bottle. I honesty thought it was the most humane and least offensive approach to the problem. I never would have done it if I thought I would mentally harm him. He stopped screaming, but at what expense. I have also been working more since divorce, in attempts to maintain lifestyle and home, so he is alone more often. I am wondering if I deserve to have him at this point. All I do is cry over him, but that is not helping him. At what point does someone consider finding another home. He has been in my life for 25 years and I cant imagine life without him, but it is not about me now, I need to do what is best for him. If all tests come back negative, that means he is so unhappy here, that he wants to hurt himself. Could it be any worse. I'm not sure I can watch him tear himself apart much longer. I found myself thinking about euthenasia because I was reading somewhere that once a bird starts mutilating and can not be stopped, it is the only humane thing to do. Do you guys believe that?

#202776 - 06/24/09 02:22 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: stephaniew]  
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First off, the encounter that the bird and your ferret had was very dangerous - for both. The saliva of mammals can result in serious problems for your bird, including death. And Charie picking the ferret up by the head - well I don't even need to elaborate on what coul have happened.

Please, please, please read the articles posted in the Applied Behavior forum. You should not be yelling at your bird, and squirting him with a water bottle is punishment. Nothing responds to punishment in a positive manner.

You should not be watching him tear himself apart, which is why getting him under the strict supervision of an avian vet is a must.

You have alot of soul searching to do right now and decide if you and your lifestyle are able to provide Charlie with the life that he deserves. A mutilating bird does not necessarily equate to an unhappy bird. It's a symptom of captivity.

Self-mutilation can be stopped, but it depends on many variables, and yes, once it begins, unless the cycle can be stopped quickly, it may likely be something that you will deal with for the rest of his life. A bird with a long history of mutilation, such as my Noelle, is not likely to completley stop, forever.

As for euthanizing Charlie because he is a mutilator, no I do not agree that it is the humane thing to do. There are many other things that can be done to protect the bird from harming himself. And honestly, I feel that euthanizing Charlie is not only inhumane, but taking the easy way out and relieving yourself of the commitment you made to this bird 25 years ago. For better, for worse. If you do not feel that you can cope, then yes, perhaps Charlie is better off in a home that is prepared and equipped to help him, and most of all understand and love him for who and what he is. Not everyone can deal day to day with these types of issues. Ending a precious life because it is too much for you to bear, is just plain wrong.

I adopted Noelle 6 months ago this Friday, knowing that she was a mutilator. She came to me with a 2 cm hole in her chest. It meant frequent trips to our avian vet (and yes lots of money) and quite frankly, my heart broke for her daily. Still does sometimes. She is being treated holistically, required a major correction in her diet, and lots of daily enrichment and she requires constant supervision. Would I ever dream of euthanizing her because of self-mutilation. I can't even comprehend the thought. Look into the eyes of this beautiful, gentle and trusting soul and you tell me - is euthanization the answer?



No, euthanization it is not the humane thing to do.



Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#202779 - 06/24/09 02:54 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: EchosMom]  
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Janet has said it all in her post, which I agree with. You have some very difficult decisions to make. One thing I would like to add though is that the ferret is a carnivore/hunter. His natural instincts are to hunt and eat small mammals and birds. Don't let the size difference fool you, your ferret can kill your M2 in short order.
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#202792 - 06/24/09 06:38 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I just got home from seeing an avian vet and now feel worse than ever. She DID NOT run any tests to rule out disease. She said that she is positive it is behavioral and that she feels I should collar him immediately. She wanted to keep him for several days to monitor collor placement and admitted it can be an ugly site, sometimes causing birds to throw themselves against the cage,etc. I feel that is the worst form of torture there could be. She wants me to change diet of fresh fruits and veggies to pellet food immediately and I am not sure how to make the change without causing more stress to charlie. I stopped and bought different pelleted foods, 3 of them being zupreem. (different flavors) Charlie is now eating people food, whatever is for dinner and then fresh fruit and veggies several times a day, along with bird food containing dried fruits and I know, the big no no, peanuts and other nuts. Do I just take that away and force him to eat pellets??? The vet does not believe in Haldol,(which was a treatment I read on internet somewhere) but wants me to give him Benadryl. She also does not believe in euthanasia, at this point. But she did agree that changing homes, after this amount of time would be devastating and probably cause too much stress for him to handle. Let me just clear up the ferret incident, because it was an accident, not an intentional act and we know ferrets are houdini's. It was a mistake and has not happened again. I was simply amazed at the gentle nature in which charlie handled the situation, as we all know could have been a nightmare instantly. All of this happened in several seconds, long enough for me to hear a rucus and run out to the kitchen to see what was happening. Charlie was missing a bar in upper part of cage that the ferret discovered and has since been fixed. Believe it or not, I am not an irresponsible pet owner by any means. I have dedicated my life to the welfare of animals and have done more rescues with cats and dogs than I could ever count. I got charlie when I was a child and trust me, as an adult, would not ever purchase such an animal due to the amount of care required. Not that I am lazy or from lack of commitment, but after educating myself, I realize that these birds need someone who is home during the day first of all and with someone who is completely dedicated full time to them. I am a nurse and work long hours, more since divorce and that is obviously impacting him badly. Like I said before, I didnt mean to yell at him, but one can only take so much of the screaming before you go crazy. I spend every minute I am home with charlie, trying to stimulate him and give him attention, but I can not quit my job because he is not getting enough attention( not to sound crass,but we all need a place to live). I know now not to ever yell at him again and feel so horribly guilty about it, I can not even begin to tell you. The reason I am on this site is for education and to try to learn everything I can to make this right. I know you have probably heard the worst of worst cases, but I feel I am at least trying and not sticking him in a dark closet like I have read so much about. Charlie is part of the family and is truly loved, but I am not perfect,obviously. I did not like the comment about euthanasia being the easy road for me, I have read multiple articles on the subject and is exactly why I asked your opinion about it. Once again, I read articles that say euthanasia is the only humane thing to do with recurrent mutilator's or else they will suffer horrible pain and usually end up bleeding to death. I know that before I will collar him, I would probably euthanize him. That has to be the upmost torturous thing anyone could do and I would never allow the vet to do so. Talk about being captive.I did read the article in applied behavior forum and is what made me realize that no matter how frustrated I am with him, I need to walk away before i hollar at him. This vet said I should never leave his cage open without supervision and yet I read so much about open cage policy. Does that mean someone is always home during this open cage policy? I really was not happy with the vet visit and honestly, very disappointed with the information given. I have received much better guidance on this site than from the vet. Do you think I just found a poor vet and should find another? She was the only avian specialist in las vegas that i could find, or the only one that came up on the internet as a specialist. What do you mean holistically, the same as holistic for humans. What are some of your holistic approaches? And what do you mean daily enrichment? I am sorry if I seem "stupid", for a lack of better terminology, I am just completely frustrated. I am willing to do whatever is within my control to make things better and will not give up until some solution is reached. I thank you for all of your time and wonderful advice and I do truely appreciate all that you are doing for charlie and I.

Last edited by stephaniew; 06/24/09 06:40 AM.
#202793 - 06/24/09 07:06 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: stephaniew]  
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Hi Stephnie. I know you have alot of questions and are looking for answers to very complex problem - self-mutilation. I am going to keep this response short because it is very late here and bird:30 comes early around here.

I too am very surprised that the AV you did not run any diagnostic testing to rule out any underlying medical conditions. That is huge red flag to me!!! I know we have some members in your area - can anyone make any recommendtions??? Also here is link to The AAV that will give you listing of members in your area. http://www.aav.org/search/index.php

Here is link to my Noelle's opening thread here, which will explain some of the treatment plan my AV and I have done.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=188957#Post188957

Hope it helps. Euthanizing him is not an option, IMO. There are other alternatives.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#202795 - 06/24/09 07:33 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: EchosMom]  
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Ok through so many tears I am writing this plea to you stephanie....please do not put this poor bird down without a fighting chance. Please OUR Poster Bird Noelle is living proof how their lives can change with the right person.Janet has done a wonderful job with her vet to make Noelle enjoy her life again and really be one of the best companions and loving birds there are.

Seriously if you don't think you can do please there are other options. There is a great Sanctuary near you.Best Friends Animal Sanctuary that would be willing to take him and give it their everything. You could I am sure visit him there and check in on his progress. There are many members here who could try and network him to try and get him to someone who is willing to fight for this poor guys life. I know you think it is too stressful but really it isn't. Maybe a collar isn't what he needs but one of the dresses that Janet and another member here designed together would be...Please Please PLEASE don't put him down like this.

I am sure Janet would graciously send a few to you if you wanted to try them out.Please do not do this. I beg you.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#202796 - 06/24/09 07:36 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: stephaniew]  
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That is a red flag! I would get a second opinion. Here are all the current listed avian veterinarians in Nevada:

Nevada
89117 KOLMSTETTER, CHRISTINE M., DVM Las Vegas A
89121 MOUNTIN, JENNIFER, DVM Las Vegas A*
89121 KENTON, BRYAN, DVM Las Vegas A
89121 HAUCK, PATRICK W., DVM Las Vegas A
89123 CACIOPPO, DOMINIC F., DVM Las Vegas A
89128 BORN, VERNON, Rev. Las Vegas B
89131 GORMAN, SHARON L., DVM Las Vegas A
89502 COCANOUR, ROBERT A., DVM Reno A
89503 CONNELLY, CATHY, MS, DVM Reno A*
89503 DITSWORTH, MARK, DVM Reno A
89503 EUGENIO, CHRIS, DVM Reno A
89503 HESS, DAWN D., DVM Reno A

Here's a listing of all members of the AAV. Each state in the United States is listed in case you need to look in an adjacent state.

Active Member List - Association of Avian Veterinarians

I hope some nearby members can give you some feedback on their personal vets in that area. I hope you will attempt to relax around Charlie as he will pick up on your tension and you have had some. This is not easy for either of you and you both have had to make drastic life changes. This is hard for cockatoos that are used to a stable life. I hope we are able to help you and I wish the very best for you and Charlie.

#202801 - 06/24/09 08:38 AM Re: What type of behavior is this? [Re: Charlie]  
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stephaniew  Offline
New Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7
Kolmstetter is who i went to. Just so people know, I was not impressed by her. Maybe she was having a bad day, it was closing time and they worked me in, but really?? Of course I will not make any rash decisions. He's been apart of me for a long time. I tried the benadryl and he didnt pick tonight. I just bought every toy petsmart and petco make and will alternate to maybe help stimulate and keep interested. My son and I are taking shifts to ensure he is not left alone and he is sleeping peacefully now. He is making his happy noises tonight that i havent heard in 2 weeks.yeah!! I know i am not out of the woods but hope we are starting the healing process. You guys are the best and I really appreciate everyone's concern. I will keep u updated and am always looking for ideas and advice. Any suggestions on keeping him busy and stimulated???

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