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#188408 - 12/21/08 04:36 AM Dairy Products  
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EchosMom Offline
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Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#188449 - 12/22/08 03:42 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: EchosMom]  
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Interesting, although I would have some questions for her.

Why is she feeding her Gray's mozzarella cheese everyday? For the calcium? There are much much better sources of calcium than dairy products. Kale, sesame seeds, almonds to name a few. Completely nondairy.

Vitamin D? If you don't ahve avian lights and give them lots of betacarotene, then you might want to supplement, but why do it with dairy? They're not more baby cows than we are and handle it less well. Dairy's vitamin D is a supplement too. They add A and D to milk. Why not just use a supplement?

Coming from a family that are all allergic to milk or lactose intolerant, I don't understand why you would feed a substance that a) even humans don't handle so well, and b) can be completely avoided without almost any trouble. Easier to avoid than lots of other allergies. (try avoiding cane & corn sugar!!)


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#188451 - 12/22/08 04:07 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: spinnyspoo]  
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What I found interesting was that the enzymes in yogurt cancel out the lactose, which I didn't know, and that the two additives that make a dairy product lactose free, are toxic to birds.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#188462 - 12/22/08 01:13 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: EchosMom]  
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That's a good to know about the lactose free products. I wonder how many people out there give their birds lactose free cheese and milk products thinking they are doing no wrong. I've always been really careful about giving Cassie yogurt fearing the lactose. She gets a bite now and then of ours. I also buy her the yogurt dips for birds. I bought Cassie the UVB lights this fall as she was low on calcium when she got her blood work back. She is also now on supplements daily. Last year she was Vit A deficient and now this year calcium. It's so hard to know if they are getting all of the necessary nutrients. Even the vet is surprised with Cassie's blood work because of her varied diet. Makes you wonder about the content of the pellets that are suppose to be nutrianally complete. If your bird eats the pellets along with all of the good veggies, beans,rice, fruits, nuts etc. why would there still be nutrianal deficiencies?
Nancy


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#188465 - 12/22/08 05:05 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Nancy, I wonder whether the nutritional deficiencies are because the 'nutritionally complete' pellets are not actually species specific. They're sort of a broad brush to feed what are naturally pretty specific eaters.

I know that my cockatoo will have different nutritional requirements than your cockatoo. Mine is australian. They live off of different things than indonesiann ones. Do I know exactly HOW it will be different? Nope, but I'm SURE that his nutrition should be somewhat different than a goffins or u2. Enough so that Australian cockatoos and Indonesian cockatoos tend to like different flavours (sweet vs starchy for eg)

Does a Timneh and a Congo need the same diet? A U2 and a M2? A 'teil and a budgie? But we're feeding them very similar if not exactly the same food.

This is my little theory that's been rolling around in my head for a while. 3 different kinds of pellets for 200 species of birds just CAN'T be nutritionally ideal. It makes no sense to me.

When it comes to dairy ...or anything really... I don't trust 'diet' or 'modified' foods. Low fat often has molecularly altered stuff in it to make it feel 'creamier' in the mouth, sugar free almost ALWAYS has fake sweetener in it (eek poison!), and now we know that lactose free has additives in it to make it lactose free.... they don't just take out the lactose?

Stick to the basics and it's really hard to go wrong.

Last edited by spinnyspoo; 12/22/08 05:13 PM. Reason: my cat was helping too much

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#188473 - 12/22/08 07:16 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: spinnyspoo]  
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On top of her pellets which constitute a small percentage of her diet she gets all the healthy greens, carrots, sweet potatoe, green beans, mixed beans, chili peppers, all types of squashs, brown rice, corn, cranberries, papaya, quinoa, oats, wheat, pumpkin & squash seeds, almonds, walnuts, pine nuts, flax seed, all sorts of mixed grains and organic breads. They are truely a delema when it comes to diet! How in the world do the birds that get a purely seed diet survive?!?!? Nancy


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#188476 - 12/22/08 07:38 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: spinnyspoo]  
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Quote:
When it comes to dairy ...or anything really... I don't trust 'diet' or 'modified' foods. Low fat often has molecularly altered stuff in it to make it feel 'creamier' in the mouth, sugar free almost ALWAYS has fake sweetener in it (eek poison!), and now we know that lactose free has additives in it to make it lactose free.... they don't just take out the lactose?

Stick to the basics and it's really hard to go wrong.



I agree with you 100% Spinny! We dont use any of these processed foods ourselves. I just dont trust what they do to them sick . We do offer pellets, but as our vet explained to us they are more of a fillin rather than a main diet. They may offer some vitamins that are missed that day and that is the way we think of them. Like Nancy posted, we offer such an abundance of healthy foods daily that we are confident that Ozzy is getting all he needs from them. He will munch on his pellets at bedtime and a few seeds, but I think he views this food as a snack rather than his main food source lol.


Deborah
A Too is not a pet, it is a choice for life!


#189451 - 01/06/09 05:53 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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I have NOT fed Kyra eggs but I was curious if they are safe. I see some bird foods at the pet store with eggs in it and have wondered what that was for.


Candi: Proud to be Kyra's mom
#189454 - 01/06/09 09:21 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: candim]  
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candim I feed eggs to my u2 Bebe. Eggs are used in birdie bread. The only way I know that eggs are no good is if they are fried. Bebe likes his in the shell hard boiled. The shells are a good source of calcium for birds, in nature all birds steal eggs from nests occasionally.

Also in several posts I have noticed that you feel attacked and I'm sure that it is not meant that way. Please don't keep taking everything so personally.


Terry
#189467 - 01/06/09 03:29 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: nanuk]  
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Thank you Terry I really am trying to do what is best for Kyra and I can't wait to see how she does with a hard boiled egg.
I am sure no one meant harm they were just wanting to see that Kyra is safe and well taken care of but the words have been so harsh I guess it is just all that passion they have and they fear I am another one of those statisics that say I got this bird because she is beautiful and cuddly. Don't worry I am NOT!!! For one Kyra wasn't too beautiful when I got her only 2 weeks ago and she sure wasn't too cuddly. She is better though now she no longer has sticky yellow feathers and barely able to fly. She looked terrible we thought she had bald spots from plucking but the vet said she was just covered in stick nicotine and tar that once we got her a few baths and a healthier diet she would start to look like a beautiful cockatoo and grow new feathers. she looks great now and she is becoming more and more friendly sometimes too friendly so we are breaking those habits too.


Candi: Proud to be Kyra's mom
#189475 - 01/06/09 04:26 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: candim]  
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Eggs are OK in moderation, but because of the high cholestrol content should be offered in moderation only.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#189511 - 01/07/09 01:16 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: candim]  
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Actually how much is too much? How often can I or should I give it to her?


Candi: Proud to be Kyra's mom
#189516 - 01/07/09 01:54 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: candim]  
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Please read the link in the first post of this thread.

#192962 - 02/14/09 03:55 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: EchosMom]  
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My question would be, why would people be feeding their birds dairy to begin with? As the first part of the article explained, milk is for mammals, not birds.

She even gives her bird cheese?? Didn't she just explain that birds do not naturally eat milk? I highly doubt birds have been sitting in the wilderness, milking the nearest mammal and learning the art of cheese making over the years.

We just keep it simple and it works. Dr. Jan Hooimeijer is actually a large supporter of an all pellet (Harrison's) diet and I personally tend to agree with him. I've encountered birds with obesity problems, high blood pressure and fatty liver disease all because people over-do-it on the amounts and types of food a bird should get.

I like to vary the pellet with some extra food now and then to add some enrichment to their normal eating routine, but cheese, milk and yogurt... ??


"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated"
#192980 - 02/14/09 08:58 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: ParrotPerson]  
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While I agree with you on the dairy products, I think you have "drank the Kool Aid" about Harrison's.

Originally Posted By: Hooimeijer on the Harrison's site
" My aim/goal is to work together with the owner for the best interest/health/welfare of the birds based on mutual respect. When owners have reason to doubt my intentions, disagree with the given advices and not willing to start working with Harrison's Bird Foods, they do not consider me as their avian veterinarian and I do not consider them as my clients.


He may as well work for them. He is also the driving force behind a movement called, I believe, the "natural parrot" in the Netherlands in which large numbers of people bring their parrots outside in parks for walks and bike rides. Many other vets and professionals disagree with this practice for numerous reasons not the least of which is disease transmission. JMHO

#193031 - 02/15/09 07:23 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: Charlie]  
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I don't offer my birds dairy on a regular basis, but I do offer 1/2 tsp or so of yogurt periodically because I have found it to be a great vehicle to disguise foul tasting med's with.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#193053 - 02/15/09 09:44 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: EchosMom]  
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I do use rice milk and 2 eggs with shells in my birdie bread. The vet I just went to said her diet was fine and she was very healthy. I do give her Harrisons, really as a snack at noon. It is definitely not her main meal. I really don't know how much she eats because the bottom of her bowl is usually crumbs so she might just be playing with them.

#193312 - 02/18/09 09:06 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: candim]  
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Interestingly enough, this article also talked about "Heinz body hemolytic anemia" which she says is caused by compounds found in garlic and onions, which I had no idea about. Leah loves to munch on garlic and onions, though I'd say she's only had onions twice and garlic about three times while helping me peel them... good to know for sure... learn something new everyday.


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#196032 - 03/17/09 04:09 PM Re: Dairy Products [Re: belle-ville]  
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We have 7 various birds in our bird house. Four of these are rescued and 3 on purpose . The AF Grey, and the G2 eat every meal with us at the table. I feed all 7 mixed veggies and fruits with either rice, orzo or pasta for lunch everyday.The parrot blend I put in their cages is made up by the Dean of Vet.Med. at OSU and contains many various seeds and nuts. This is their play food and filler.I cook eggs every morning and toast a lot of times with peanut butter. I also make cereal and milk with 2% milk which no one has a problem digesting.Our Avian Vet has checked everyone throughly and all have very clean bills of health. One of the quakers we rescued was self mutilated to almost total baldness and is now fully feathered and flighted and is one of our sweetested birds.I must add I am home everyday and all birds have free reign of the house with perches in every room. Normally at least 5 follow me from room to room just like little chicks.

I think just as in humans some foods are totally off limits but most of what's healthy for us is fine in moderation.
Nannyherr

#196225 - 03/19/09 07:47 AM Re: Dairy Products [Re: nannyherr]  
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Good grief, I am so glad to hear someone else is cooking all day long for their Too. Though Baby has only been here for just over a week, I cook for her several times a day. She loves toast, and I make a special little pancake for her with oatmeal, flax seed and ground whole wheat. Today she had toast with cooked butternut squash spread on it like jam, she loved it.
She will not eat a whole lot of stuff but I'm offering her different things half a dozen times a day. She wou't eat her Zupreem pellets though, throws it out of the cup and peanuts go sailing too. She does love warm toast! and if it's YOUR toast with a bit of butter on it thats even better, she will insist on YOUR toast instead of her own, very funny.

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