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#183797 - 11/03/08 12:45 PM TOO on ER
birdladyofbarton Offline
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Did anyone see the TOO on ER beautiful bird but hope it doesn't spark a "hey cool" lets get one!

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#183799 - 11/03/08 12:47 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: birdladyofbarton]
sandiego Offline
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No, but there is a new commercial with a "pet store" and a bunch of large birds on it. It's for Quickbooks.
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#183802 - 11/03/08 01:11 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: sandiego]
Elliott Offline
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I saw it. Didn't you notice the Too was a plucker??

Like the Quickbooks commercial.

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#183858 - 11/03/08 07:24 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Elliott]
Cassie's_girl Offline
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I saw er. It was nice that it was a plucker and not a "perfect" too. BUT, I was disappointed by how they portrayed it as recommended by the boy's therapist to help him deal with his anxiety. A difficult to care, for wild creature, with a 70+ year lifespan, to help a young boy come out of his shell? WHAT????? I know it's just TV, and not to be taken literally, but very irresponsible how they described the "qualities" of a 'pet' cockatoo. I can't remember the exact words, but I think gentle was in there. frown
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#183874 - 11/04/08 07:48 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Cassie's_girl]
Greta Offline
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I cringed when I saw a Cockatoo on the show Sons Of Anarchy. It was on a stand in Katy Segals bedroom. Years ago people would refer to Cockatoos as "One of those Baretta birds" and I am sure that show sparked a lot of purchases.
The shelters filled up with Dalmatians a few months after 101 Dalmatians came out and black Labs after Clinton got one.
There are a lot of people with more money than common sense. I am particularly distressed when they show a Parrot and dub in a voice because there are people out there that think "I gotta have one of those".
I didn't see ER but I am sure now some parents will get a bird to "help" their child.

Greta

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#183875 - 11/04/08 08:40 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Greta]
BE2Cassie Offline

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Hopefully when parents go out to buy a bird for their child the cost factor will slow them down. Also I would hope that they would discuss it with the childs doctor first. Birds and other animals can and are used as therapy animals in assisting with anxiety disorders. I wonder if any of the medical journals have done studies on it?
Nancy
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#183879 - 11/04/08 09:26 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
Greta Offline
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Birds are pretty inexpensive or free on Craigslist, at least in my area. I just can't grasp the thought of birds being used for therapy especially with their hormonal changes and the fact that they are not domesticated.
Dogs on the other hand would seem so much better suited for that task.
Of all the birds in my house the only one that could come close to being used for therapy would be the BE2. She is such a loving, happy, silly, gregarious little thing but would probably eat some child's beloved electronic toy left on a table if eyes were taken off of her for a second!

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#183880 - 11/04/08 10:12 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Greta]
Crazybirdlady Offline
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An episode of CSI sometime in the past (I watch the re-runs sometimes) showed a SC2 in a bell cage in the victm's apartment. I wish Hollywood would do its homework on the birds. Sigh . . .

And have you seen the Verizon Wireless ad with a yellow naped amazon in a bell cage? I hate bell cages.
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#183881 - 11/04/08 10:37 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Crazybirdlady]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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Telus commercials here in Canada feature all kinds of colorful parrots on a white screen. There are many versions. I hate them.

Bell cages are horrible and DANGEROUS.
THIS is the 22 inch one Tika spent the first 10 years of his life. Same amount of toys. He has a 38 inch wingspan. mad

THIS is where he lives now (and only for a few hours a day). smile smile


Edited by TiKa's Dad (11/04/08 10:40 AM)
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#183886 - 11/04/08 11:03 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Greta]
charlieandme Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greta
Birds are pretty inexpensive or free on Craigslist, at least in my area. I just can't grasp the thought of birds being used for therapy especially with their hormonal changes and the fact that they are not domesticated.
Dogs on the other hand would seem so much better suited for that task.
Of all the birds in my house the only one that could come close to being used for therapy would be the BE2. She is such a loving, happy, silly, gregarious little thing but would probably eat some child's beloved electronic toy left on a table if eyes were taken off of her for a second!



Free or cheep on CraigsList here as well. I've warned a few of them via email. A couple of M2's looking for a home because of a illness in the family particularly touched me. The problem we have here is there aren't any rescues that aren't over flowing already. I know there is one in the bay area with a good reputation but the rest are truly hit and miss. Many times the owners prefer to try and place them on their own.

I do think birds are therapy though. grin Charlie makes me happy, they just aren't therapy for everyone.
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#183897 - 11/04/08 12:33 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: charlieandme]
luv my Coco bean Offline
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yes, I saw the parrot on ER and was also happy to see he was a plucker, and also that he flew away and had to be found....Tika's dad....your little guy has gone from a bachelor appartment to a mansion!! That's just amazing, and makes me so happy to see.
as for Craigs list....let me just say that not everything you see on there is real....alot of those ads are put on by people in poor countries and are only looking for money....sometimes there are NO animals to be bought. The reason I know that is because I once tried to get a puppy from someone who said they lived near me, then was told to send a money order to his wife in Africa and then he'd send the dog from another province etc...it was a big scam. He even sent pictures of the dog....but I saw the same pics on another persons ad as well...I'm not saying that there aren't people who actually do sell birds on there, I'm just saying in general....beware of what you try to buy on there. Watch for scammers.
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#183911 - 11/04/08 01:32 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: luv my Coco bean]
Ladyhutch Offline
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I saw the ER episode and I was very distressed to see the Cockatoo also. But I must say this; The boy did not talk when brought to the ER. It was not until after the bird flew when Tony and the boy were locked in the storage area, that Tony was able to make a break through, and the boy began talking again. I know birds should never be seen as quality pets, but I don`t think it was as bad as it could have been.
Sharon
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#183918 - 11/04/08 02:01 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Ladyhutch]
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I think its horrible. Birds, ESPECIALLY COCKATOOS, should NOT be therapy birds! Yes they are GREAT birds, I think so. But NOT ALL PEOPLE are cockatoo people. And petstores that sell cockatoo babies make BANK on idiots who think "awww he sweet and cuddly, what a perfect pet for my autistic child!" mad

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#183920 - 11/04/08 02:15 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Bokka-pooh]
rockinseattle Offline
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I did not see that episode but I have noticed more and more parrots on T.V. in Shows and commercials..

I don't like it at all.

I agree, I think Hollywood should do their research before showing ANY animal on T.V..

As for birds being theraputic I think they can HOWEVER I don't think that any tom, dick and jane needs to RUN right out and get themselves a bird just for theraputic reasons, cuz if the bird isn't taken care of properly then there IS NO WAY that bird is gonna help...

Instead I propose working with rescues as a part of therapy under guided supervision.

A bit off topic - A new study about Autism.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081103170607.htm


Edited by rockinseattle (11/04/08 02:16 PM)

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#183931 - 11/04/08 05:24 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: rockinseattle]
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It looks like what I said has been misunderstood. I'm not talking of using any birds as therapy birds to be used in animal therapy programs that used in schools, nursing homes and such. What I was refering to was personal therapy animals. In other words when a specific bird or animal has a positive influence on someone and assists the person with a specific issue in their life. The example used on the show using a too for a therapy bird with a person with an anxiety disorder has in fact helped people. The bird has a calming influence on the person thus limiting or decreasing the anxiety attack. With a doctors certificate the person is allowed to bring the bird with them where ever they go. In this case the bird/animal is viewed as a service animal.
I'm hoping that the increase in the use of birds in commercials and TV shows decreases. There are far too many idiots out there that will impulse buy without knowing what they are getting into.
Nancy
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#183936 - 11/04/08 05:50 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
Donnalee Offline
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You are EXACTLY right Bokka-Pooh! 2s donot have a calming effect when they are screaming or need their cage cleaned. I'm sure someone with autism or anxiety would not want that or be able to care for one. I sure hope no one gets the dopey idea of getting a 2 for therapy at the office and leaving him alone to pluck from 5 p.m. to 8 a.m. I am so TIRED of people USING animals.
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#183941 - 11/04/08 06:20 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
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One of our established members here has a cockatoo that has received a "service" permit designation by her physicians. Perhaps she will see this tread and share her thoughts and comments.
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#183943 - 11/04/08 06:36 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: EchosMom]
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I've seen many animals that are used as service animals and I must say that I wouldn't say that they are being used. These animals are very loved and exceptionally well cared for. I believe that it is a mutual use between the animal and the human. Also the animal is not used at the office but is generally with the person twenty-four/seven. The majority of people with anxiety disorders are more than capable of caring not only for themselves but also others. Not all anxiety disorders leave people incapacitated or agoraphobic(sp?) It would also be the same with someone who has autism. It all depends on the type of disorder it is. Many people with autism have IQs that are through the roof.
Nancy
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#183946 - 11/04/08 06:41 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
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I agree Nancy! And this particular subject is a prime example of why we should never paint any persons, or situations with one broad brush.
Labels serve no useful purpose. wink
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~


Project Perry, Inc., The Central Virginia Parrot Sanctuary
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#183948 - 11/04/08 06:43 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: EchosMom]
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Very well said EM!
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#183956 - 11/04/08 07:18 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
Janny Offline

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I for one person had anxiety disorder and suffered from very severe anxiety attacks. I managed quite well with my flock.They never effected me in the least. Quite the opposite actually. I would hold Gabby and almost meditate with him while skritching his head. It was a wonderful relationship. He got what he loved and so did I.

There are a few members here with anxiety disorders and find that to be so judged because of anxiety or mental disability to be quite harsh. I see this daily with the Psychiatric Facility I work at as well. Close minded people making comments without Knowledge.
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#183960 - 11/04/08 07:25 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Janny]
rockinseattle Offline
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I'm not sure if what I said is what upset you all but that was not my intention.

I think animals can be very theraputic and with so many birds in rescue who need a purpose/job and loving people that they are a prime candidate for people who would benifit from theraputic birds.

Edit reason: Adding an article.
http://www.parrotchronicles.com/2007/features/parrottherapy/vets.htm





Edited by Janny (11/04/08 07:45 PM)
Edit Reason: the link to the article is enough I removed the long article from the post

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#183964 - 11/04/08 07:40 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: rockinseattle]
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I know that there are programs for people in prison to establish relationships with animals. They use rescue animals a lot of the time (or all, not sure). I think that is awesome. Or people who have to clean horse stalls, etc. I've read about prisoners who did that and some became SO attached to one or a few horses.
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#183965 - 11/04/08 07:44 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
Jackielu Offline
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Paco is a certified pet therapy bird, and he loves it.

When we were driving to church last week I said, "you ready to go see the boys and girls?" and Paco said, awwwwweriiiiightt. He loves going to see people, both in the nursing homes and church. Granted, he loves children the most--that is abundantly obvious.

In my study, I've learned that not only does it improve the lives of the people with which he interacts, but also improves his own life. After I finish gathering my data and calculating the results, I'll let you know exactly how much he does help people.

He has a blast playing with people, he's turned into a real ham. I do have to be careful not to let him become overstimulated. But he loves going places with me.

Everytime someone mentions getting one I tell them it's like living with an eternal two-year-old for eighty years, and that he requires more work and money than taking care of a 1200 pound horse. That makes them settle for playing with him once a week.

Toos can be a tremendous asset, but they're also a tremendous responsibility.


Edited by Jackielu (11/04/08 07:48 PM)

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#183967 - 11/04/08 07:53 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Jackielu]
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I too have been given permission from my facility manager to bring Bailey my M2 and Daubbie my hahns macaw to work on occasion. We get some very depressed and suicidal people in our facility and you would not believe the difference it makes to them. It changes some of their lives drastically. Gives them something to feel special about and it is also very good trust builder for myself also. That client believes they are important enough for me to take a bird out to see them and when I am working that client would rather seek me out and talk than do something to harm themselves.
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#183971 - 11/04/08 08:15 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Janny]
Bird Mom Offline
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The birds are definitely great therapy!
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#183973 - 11/04/08 08:23 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Janny]
EchosMom Offline

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Good article Rocks, thanks for posting it. From my standpoint, it wasn't what anyone in particular said, just the overall direction and tone the thread was taking. Way to many falicies, factless innuendos and labeling.

Obviously I don't feel that a therapy bird is appropriate for every individual suffering from emotional or psychological disorders, but given the right set of circumstances, the right individual and the right service animal, it's beneficial to both human and animal/bird.

I don't think we'd be seeing this same conversation about the benefits of a seeing-eye animal. Are those animals being "used" also? Perhaps, but I ditto what Janny, Nancy and the others have said, if both human and animal get what they need, then it's a win-win situation.

Now the whole segment on ER...from what I'm reading it probably did get the wrong message out to the vast majority. But the topic was going way beyond the television screen, and taking it on a more personal, larger encompassed area.


Edited by EchosMom (11/04/08 08:28 PM)
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~


Project Perry, Inc., The Central Virginia Parrot Sanctuary
Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress

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#183976 - 11/04/08 08:35 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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Originally Posted By: BE2Cassie
Very well said EM!


Well said Nancy an EM on both posts. smile When you see it in person it is magic. smile


Edited by TiKa's Dad (11/04/08 08:41 PM)
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#183978 - 11/04/08 08:45 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: EchosMom]
m0m24 Offline
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Autism is near and dear to me as a pediatrician and as a mother raising a child with a condition that is similar to autism. My first instinct would be to worry about the bird. Depending on the type and severity of the autism. However, my son who cannot read body language at all in humans and therefore suffers social problems has bonded to Mango (who is a sun and not a too) and reads him well. Plus he is hyposensitive to pain so when he is bitten it doesn't bother him as much. However, I did worry about his ability to care for a bird even with help. He is so literal that if you say to him you must feed the cat every night right after supper, he will worry if we aren't at home to feed the cat and he would never forget. He is extremely responsible but again I worried about the bird. With a too I might have also worried the bird could hurt him. As always I have to say is it wise to get a therapy bird for a child emphasis on child? Would anyone on this board recommend a too to a child in the usual course of events? So, if the parents want to turn their lives over to a bird realizing that it lives longer than half a century and requires extreme levels of care then if the child bonds with a rescue after many hours of visits- ok. For those of you adults you make your own choices and are capable of considering the bird first. You aren't an impulse control limited child with a major neurological disorder that limits your ability to plan for the future. I just hope my son can actually function as an adult who doesn't live at home his entire life and he is high functioning with an verbal IQ in the genius level. Survival skills just aren't there. I work with autistic kids. When you've met one kid with autism you've met one kid with autism. They are all extremely different in personality, temperament, and ability set. I started this reply actually to say how it worked despite my fears and how glad I am. However, I was perfectly willing to be the forever caregiver with or without Sebastian's help. This board has definitely taught me that a any bird isn't a dog - a too certainly isn't. I don't question that a bird is calming and helpful for anxiety as well as other issues. He still deserves a home where he is loved for just being a bird and where his needs are met, first. That is my only fear in a kid situation whether the kids is NT (neurotypical) or not. Can the family met his (bird's) needs while caring for a labor intensive child who melts down is his needs are anticipated and met before he even knows he has them? Birds and autistic kids are very similar - they both require superhuman amounts of patience, love, empathic body language intuition and time. It may be hard for the average family to give all of these to both the child and the bird.

Sorry so long.
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#183982 - 11/04/08 08:54 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: m0m24]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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Quote:
Sorry so long.
Balderdash.
What a great thread. smile
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#183994 - 11/04/08 09:26 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: TiKa's Dad]
Crazybirdlady Offline
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What a wonderful change! Tika is a very fortunate bird.

At the first vet clinic I worked for there is a YNA in a bell cage. He's probably been in it for over 20 years. That bird reached out to me and started my permanent case of bird fever. When I left that clinic to work for the avian/exotic vet, I made sure to leave on good terms so I could come back and visit Jethro. And to let him know I haven't forgotten him. They won't let me have him - yet. If the Dr. ever retires I might get to take him. It's frustrating, to put it mildly. So when George was dumped at the same clinic I knew I had to get him out ASAP.
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#183995 - 11/04/08 09:27 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: m0m24]
Charlie Offline

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Quote:
This board has definitely taught me that a any bird isn't a dog - a too certainly isn't.


This is a very important point that I am glad you reinforced.Parrots are not domesticated animals and the larger the parrot, or cockatoo, the more unpredictable they become. Not their fault!

You might be interested in this excerpt from Dr. Mike Doolan's work which considers some views of Temple Grandin:

Quote:
Attention Deficit Disorder, autism, and the prey bird
This is understood best when considering that all animals, but especially prey birds, must have a degree of
what humans would call Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). For the animal, this is actually not a disorder
at all, but a requirement. Animals that are prey must not filter and ignore stimuli unless they have learned
for sure that they do not represent danger. A woman named Temple Grandin asserts this concept in her
book, Animals in Translation: Using the Mysteries of Autism to Decode Animal Behavior.11 It makes
perfect sense and is supported by many examples in the author’s experience. Temple also asserts that
animals are “hyperspecific” about stimuli. This means that an animal may be unafraid of a particular
stimulus, but terrified of the same stimulus that has only a tiny, even imperceptible difference. She gives
an example of a horse she knows that panics at the approach of a male human with a black cowboy hat on
his head. The same man, same hat in his hand elicits no response. A woman with the black cowboy hat on
her head gets no response, etc. The response is specific to the exact set of circumstances of gender of
human, type and color of hat and position of hat on human. This author once had a wild caught Amazon
that would attack viciously if he approached the bird wearing any kind of cologne or body fragrance.
Without the fragrance, the bird acted in an expected way with no aggressive tendencies. These are two of
many examples that come to mind. They may represent specific factors or combinations of factors that
elicit memories of frightening experiences. In the case of one owner whose bird had a similar panic attack
as described above, the eliciting stimulus was the color combination of pants and shirt the owner was
wearing. He had worn that shirt in front of the bird before and those pants in front of it, but never had
presented to the bird with that specific combination. To prove it, he was able to show that if he did not
wear that combination, the attack was not repeated. If he began to slowly enter the room wearing that
particular combination, he saw that the bird became agitated as he entered the room and then became
more fearful as he approached. Since he was then aware that this was the problem he left the room to
change before the bird experienced another all-out attack.
Temple also reveals in her book that she herself is autistic. She asserts that animals show evidence that
they have similar tendencies naturally. She says that if an autistic person begins to feel the building
feeling of panic, a powerful tool to treat this is restraint. She has actually built a squeeze-chute she gets
into if she feels an attack coming on. She reports that this restraint calms her and helps ease the feeling of
panic. This is a technique that this author and most avian veterinarians actually use routinely in the exam
room. It is usually necessary to restrain a patient with or without a towel in order to examine and treat it.
If a firm yet gentle and calm approach is used it is often very reassuring to the owner to see their
otherwise nervous bird calm down and accept the restraint with less struggling.12 This only fails to calm
in the case of the wild or very dominant birds that are not only panicked, but also very angry. This is the
basis of the apparent success the man calling himself the “bird whisperer” is seen to achieve. This
technique may sometimes be useful in the home setting in the case of a panic attack or a severe “temper
tantrum”. It is, however, potentially dangerous if the owner is not very well trained, experienced, and
skillful in its execution. It is not often recommended for home treatment, but all owners should be trained
to safely restrain their bird in the event of an emergency so they can safely deal with situations involving
hemorrhage and/or entrapment of appendages. This represents the physical assertion of a level of control
and authority that most social beings need to some extent in order to feel a protected part of the group
they belong to. This is seen in social structure in a strong family environment in humans and in a strong
flock environment in flocking birds. The most successful bird owner has incorporated a balance of
structure, control and authority with a healthy level of freedom, social growth, and independence.


Natural Birdmanship - Michael Doolen, DVM

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#183998 - 11/04/08 09:45 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: TiKa's Dad]
Cassie's_girl Offline
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Quote:
Parrots Used in PTSD Therapy for War Veterans
by Mandalit del Barco

Weekend Edition Sunday, July 15, 2007 · In Los Angeles, some recovering war veterans are getting therapeutic help for post-traumatic stress disorder from an unlikely source: rescued and abused parrots. Physicians say it's an exercise in mutual healing for both parrot and patient.




If you click THIS LINK it will take you to the above program, and you can hear a great NPR broadcast about a program that has veterans suffering from PTSD caring for formerly abused and neglected parrots, and the mutual healing process that the parrots and the people go through. It sounds like a great idea, and I also think that birds and many other animals can be greatly beneficial as therapy pets. I do object to the idea of a large parrot for a child though. Therapy animal or not, a large parrot cannot be safely considered as a child's companion. I have a 7 & 10 year old, and while they do feed my U2 about once a week (through outside access doors) and offer her treats with supervision, they do not handle her or pet her. They both have been nipped by our 'tiel and bitten by our LB, so they have a very healthy respect for Cassie's beak!
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#184001 - 11/04/08 09:52 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Cassie's_girl]
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#184002 - 11/04/08 09:55 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: m0m24]
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Elizabeth, in answer to your question, absolutely NO, I would not recommend a cockatoo for a child - theraputic or otherwise. Children and cockatoos don't mix...I have both, so I know full well.

That was a great post - thank you!!!
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#184005 - 11/04/08 10:05 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: EchosMom]
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OMG THEY HAVE A COCKATOO ON COBERT SHOW RIGHT NOW

ON comedy central "indecion 08". poor bird looks scared!


Edited by sandiego (11/04/08 10:06 PM)
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#184017 - 11/04/08 11:48 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: sandiego]
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That too looked terrified but then again colbert basically shouts everything he says.

I like the idea of using the care of toos and other large parrots as therapy for adults. I know that some prisons have farms for the inmates to work at. I wonder if anyone has tried something similar with parrots? It seems like something that could work. One of the most important things in working with parrots is giving them time which prisoners certainly have plenty of. I think they could sympathize with the parrots plight; just like the birds some of those guys are behind bars for life.

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#184024 - 11/05/08 06:15 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: ralphsdad]
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Great articles Charlie and Nikki
I do have to agree that children and birds don't normally mix and shouldn't be used as therapy birds. Birds I do feel make excellent therapy animals for adults.
Nancy
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#184046 - 11/05/08 10:48 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
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Go figure I was having 'too dreams all night :P At one point I had an umbrella cockatoo zipped in my jacket?
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#184057 - 11/05/08 11:53 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: sandiego]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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Originally Posted By: sandiego
Go figure I was having 'too dreams all night :P At one point I had an umbrella cockatoo zipped in my jacket?

eek laugh
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#184065 - 11/05/08 12:20 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: BE2Cassie]
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Autism & anxiety can be mild to severe. Most people don't have the wear-with-all to give 2s the proper care they need. I don't mind if the animals needs are met first and they enjoy what they are doing. I was at the Health Centre which is where my daughter got her immunization shots. I got talking to the manager there and told her I had a 2. She said" Oh, you should bring her in so the residents could see her--they'd really like that. " Knowing Baby Girl, SHE would not like that. She doesn't like strangers or strange places. Also I have no idea what germs lurk there. There is a sign up at the Health Center: "Please be quiet as the residents donot like loud noises as some are sleeping and some have pacemakers." Apparently the manager doesn't know a thing about 2s!
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#184103 - 11/05/08 05:37 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
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Donna- I worked at an acute care facility for many years, and I used to brng my BFA in all the time. Everybody loved him because he was such a ham, and talked and laughed and performed. He loved an audience. But I never let anyone else handle him, for their safety, and for hygienic reasons as well. But Cassie would just be terrified of all that attention! I think it really is something that needs to be decided by each individual situation. It's so interesting how people seem to be comforted so much by animals isn't it?
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#184117 - 11/05/08 08:54 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Cassie's_girl]
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Oh yes Nikki, most people really love animals and being with something you love is very calming and relaxing. I worked at the Palliser Care Center in Swift Current which had everything from acute to palliative. The sad thing I noticed was about half the residents didn't have many/any visitors. At that time (20 years ago)there was no pet therapy and the lonely residents only got interation from us nurses/nurses' aids who had a few spare moments. I'll never forget that! : (
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#184124 - 11/05/08 10:27 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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Quote:
The sad thing I noticed was about half the residents didn't have many/any visitors.


That is what I noticed. The sparkle in those peoples eyes when they saw the birds came right from their soul. No matter what their situation was, it was forgotten for that time they spent with the birds. That really stuck in my head. smile
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#184269 - 11/07/08 09:56 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: TiKa's Dad]
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That is what enables the "Living Design" company to place breeding aviaries in nursing homes all over this area. The residents, at least some of them, just love sitting and watching the 6 to 14 birds in the glass flight cage hop around on the cement branches, climb in and out of the nest baskets, and eat. The company rep comes once every few weeks to take away babies, replace aging breeders (who knows what he does with the old ones? but I can guess) and clean the cage, which has a couple of inches of ground corncobs on the floor. Feeding may be done by nursing home staff or residents. Probably most of the finches, canaries, and diamond doves in several states are bred in these things.
The company says they are a "research" company, promoting the "preservation of these species" by having them in living areas shared with humans all over the planet, except, of course, the ones where they were native.
The aviary is on wheels, so it can be moved in and out of the areas where the mental health patients live: these are the people that sometimes do stuff like pour water into the top of the aviary (which has fluorescent light fixtures in it) because the watering dishes are nearly invisible, being inside wooden boxes, and they think the birds might be thirsty. Most of the staff don't have time or inclination to learn about the birds' needs, so they don't turn off the lights at night, or pull down the built-in shades that would give dark for sleeping (the lights are ALWAYS on in a nurding home lobby) or even change the water when it's dirty. To be fair, the company has a system that's supposed to keep the water clean for 3 days at a time, but there is a profound shortage of places to set the watering station (it has to be on the aviary floor) where it isn't under a perch or feeder, so it gets really messy, really quickly. (sound familiar?)

I think that if the establishment has an aviary for residents' therapy, this design is not bad, but this company is strictly in business to make money, with little or no regard for the birds' living conditions. That regard, and any kind of care quality, can come only from the people who work in the building, and mostly, in my experience, there's a severe-to profound lack of both info and motivation for proper care. I personally cringe whenever I see one of these things.
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#184276 - 11/07/08 11:00 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: jm47]
TiKa's Dad Offline
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That is a sad fact. Take something good (the idea) and poison it to make it bad, and make money off it in the process. frown

Just typical of so many things. frown
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#184483 - 11/09/08 12:52 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: TiKa's Dad]
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Dogs & cats make much better therapy pets because TOUCH is so important. Of course it is fine to take in your pet bird in if he enjoys it. Letting the residents pet and cuddle dogs & cats is much more benificial. For a lot of the residents that is all they have. : ( SHAME on Living Design; another way of abusing animals for their own gain!
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#184607 - 11/10/08 11:58 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
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I don't think touch is always important. I love to watch Charlie, I love to hear and watch the horses eat, I love to watch chickens peck the ground, I even find myself watching the parakeets, and my new thing is watching the goats graze. Everyone has their own thing.

I think the aviary in the nursing home is a great idea, but it should be rescued birds. And maybe a short story about all the birds for guests to read, use it as an opportunity to educate. Fish tanks are also a good idea, I don't like to take care of fish tanks, but I sure do like to watch them.

Smell is another great thing...I love, love, love to take big whiffs of my horse. I do it every single day. And I'm always taking big whiffs of Charlie too. Course you have to touch in order to smell, but dogs don't have the great smell many herbivores have, even completely clean, and a cat doesn't really smell much to me.
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#184609 - 11/10/08 12:28 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: charlieandme]
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Originally Posted By: charlieandme
Smell is another great thing...I love, love, love to take big whiffs of my horse. I do it every single day. And I'm always taking big whiffs of Charlie too.


I'm in absolute agreement, a few deep breaths of horse is equal to all the happy pills in the world for me!
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#184612 - 11/10/08 01:25 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Cassie's_girl]
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Charlieandme: I meant touch is important to all people, but especially residents in a nursing home, who have no physical interaction with anything. You have your children, husband, pets, etc. giving you daily hugs & kisses. A lot of these people sit in their wheelchairs and/or lay in their beds all day and would benifit greatly from petting dogs & cats etc. There was a study done on premature babies that were in incubators. (Sorry, I can't cite the study--google it if you must) Premies that were gently stroked and/or held faired much better than the premies that were just left untouched in their incubators (I think that is what they are called.) Touch is extremely important to everyone. Imagine yourself in a nursing home with no visitors for whatever reason and you just sat/laid there all day with only the nurses providing your basic needs.


Edited by Donnalee (11/10/08 01:52 PM)
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#184638 - 11/10/08 06:58 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
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I know you are right on with the babies! Nursing home...I'm on the fence. I've known many people that don't want to touch animals, but if they weren't being touched and talked to on a regular basis maybe that does change. But if you think about it an aviary or a fish tank will always be there, a dog, cat, and now they even have therapy horses, just visit. So an aviary of rescued birds would be in addition to their normal animal visitors. I think it's a brilliant idea, if it was done right.

Maybe as a person that always has animals around, couldn't imagine life without them. I'd be the old lady breaking into the aviary trying to feed and hold the birds. They'd have to lock em up.
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#184799 - 11/11/08 09:39 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: charlieandme]
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Yes, Donnalee is right. It's called Kangaroo care and has been the norm in NICU's for decade or more now. I touch people constantly. The dirtier, smellier the child the more I assume no one gets close enough to share a simple touch. I touch their knee while talking and stroke their hair. They need to know they aren't untouchables. I am sure the elderly are the same way. My own children are always in my arms if we are in the same room.

I put a saltwater tank in my office and I take care of it myself. The kids love the fish! That is all they talk about now - where they used to just ask for stickers through the entire appointment.
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#185014 - 11/13/08 09:47 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: m0m24]
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Elizabeth--you are an ANGEL! Thank God for people like you. : )
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#185017 - 11/13/08 09:59 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Donnalee]
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Donna,
Thank you for those sweet words. Kids and animals are special beings that deserve to be loved.
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#185054 - 11/14/08 09:47 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: m0m24]
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Studies done on Rhesus monkeys showed the importance of secuirty and physical contact. Babies were placed in an enclosure with 'suurogate' mothers, a wire mesh monkey that provided food, and a soft terrycloth one that provided comfort and contact. Guess which one the baby monkeys bonded to more (hint: it wasn't the one with food!). When exposed to 'scary' things like stuffed toys, the babies with the comforting 'mothers' coped just fine and were even curious. Ones with only the wire mothers were terrified.

This showed not only the preference (possibly instinctive) for contact, BUT also the need for it. Such comfort is required for proper mental devlopment.

Cite

Cite

Originally Posted By: Donnalee
There was a study done on premature babies that were in incubators. (Sorry, I can't cite the study--google it if you must) Premies that were gently stroked and/or held faired much better than the premies that were just left untouched in their incubators (I think that is what they are called.) Touch is extremely important to everyone. Imagine yourself in a nursing home with no visitors for whatever reason and you just sat/laid there all day with only the nurses providing your basic needs.


Cite

Cite
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#185076 - 11/14/08 05:47 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Elfhome]
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Oh you're welcome Elizabeth! Kids & animals are near & dear to my heart too. My 4 year old boy is already getting stingy with hugs & kisses for mom (as to be expected--they grow up so fast).

Thanks Elfhome. Yes, the early years are crucial and it can set the stage for the rest of their lives. It is so sad when you think about latch-key kids. : (
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#185432 - 11/18/08 03:24 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Cassie's_girl]
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Originally Posted By: Cassie's_girl
I was disappointed by how they portrayed it as recommended by the boy's therapist to help him deal with his anxiety. A difficult to care, for wild creature, with a 70+ year lifespan, to help a young boy come out of his shell? WHAT????? I know it's just TV, and not to be taken literally, but very irresponsible how they described the "qualities" of a 'pet' cockatoo.


Unfortunately, this is a common practice. It's also how I came to get my U2. The previous owner purchased him for her daughter who was "sick" as a hope to make her better. The chid was autistic. So Lola bonded with the child and he did help the girl, but as soon as the mother thought her daughter was "all better," as if there is such a thing from autism, she decided to give Lola up. I think it was simply because she didn't want to deal with caring for a too anymore...The problem was is they thought having Lola would be theraputic to the child. I would love to slap the person who told those people that!
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#186347 - 11/27/08 10:28 AM Re: TOO on ER [Re: Greta]
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I also saw the cockatoo on Sons of Anarchy. There is a "bikers bar" near us, and several of the bikers bring their birds into the smoke filled bar, according to my husband who just stopped off for a beer. When confronted, one of the bikers quit bringing his bird into the bar when my husband told him that the smoke could make his bird sick. The guy said that he also is keeping his bird away from smoke in his house as well which is good to know.
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#186612 - 11/29/08 11:14 PM Re: TOO on ER [Re: RB2sMom]
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Good for hubby! One more for "our side". Every little bit helps.
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