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#177634 - 09/11/08 03:57 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: Janny]  
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I'm sorry Bev. I realized that after I did it. Won't happen again.


John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#177665 - 09/11/08 07:24 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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Ok hubby helped me come up with a behavior he would like to have changed smile. This is something that Ozzie only does to him. It is only occasionally and since he has never done it to me I had not thought about it blush

behavior: occasionally while sitting on hubbys arm or even when playing together Ozzie will start nipping (kinda hard) at hubbys fingers and arm. When we first brought Ozzie home this was done more aggressively. What Hubby has done to curb it so far is to gently say "no, be easy" and remove him arm from reach. Ozzie now will still on occasions get a little feisty and soon as hubby says "no, be easy" Ozzie stops or nibbles very lightly and then stops. I should probably add that Ozzies first owner was a male and he played rather aggressively with his birds, he also has several Macaws. Ozzie was his only and first Too.

Deborah


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#177671 - 09/12/08 12:41 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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I've been following along today and everyone has a good knowledge of what a construct is and why we should not use them.

While thinking IS a behavior, it is the private event of the thinker and known only to them. Thinking cannot be observed. So rather than concentrate on what the bird may be thinking (my bird "hates" me) we have to concentrate rather on what the bird is doing.

Behavior has function and there is never just behavior.

You guys have thrown out some behaviors you'd like help in changing and I am going to let Bev take the lead on those. In the meantime, I will respond to the two behaviors I used that I would like to see less of.


Backround: Alex is in his sleep cage

"A" (antecedent) = Janet put her hand in Alex's sleep cage
"B" (behavior) = Alex bites Janet
"C" (consequence) Janet removes her hand from Alex's sleep cage

The probable future behavior is that Alex will continue to bite Janet when she puts her hand in his sleep cage so she will remove her hand.

Now this behavior, was stopped very easily by a mere change of the antecedent. I don't stick my hand in his sleep cage while he's occupying it. In the mornings, I just wheel the sleep cage out to the familyroom next to his day cage and open both doors. End of behavior, because by re-arranging the antecedent that laid the groundwork for the biting to occur it no longer happens. That was an easy one, because sometimes it takes a re-arrangement of both the antecedent and the consequence to bring about positive changes.

The 2nd example I used is that Alex will start yelling (actually honking) the minute I leave his sight. This is still a work in progress, but progressing nicely. As Bev said screaming/yelling is not a good behavior to reduce by ignoring it, because it is very easily can be intermittently reinforced, either intentionally or unintentionally. Intentionally, when we are just at our wits end and respond to the vocalizations by going to the bird because we just can't listen to any longer, get a phone call that we need to take w/out a bird screaming in the backround, or a knock at the door at the front door, which means that I have to walk into the familyroom (where Alex is yelling for me) to answer the door. When we try to ignore a behavior, such as this, the second we reinforce it, we've just taught that it needs to scream louder and longer for the reinforcement.

So, in the beginning:



A= Janet has left the room
B= Alex honks
C= Janet comes back into the room

Probable future behavior - Alex will honk to get Janet to come back

So I have been teaching Alex a more acceptable way of communicating that will still provide him with the consequence. I've replaced the incessant honking with a phrase "Hey Bird!" (Bird is his name for me). Now I had to be careful not to intermittently reinforce this, so when I know that I have to take a phone call, I be sure to stay in his sight. In the beginning when he honked for me, I would contact call back "Hey Bird!" The minute he repeated it...I applied the reinforcement of appearing. Then I'd leave again. We've been working on this for about 8 months now. I've started delaying the reinforcement by responding to his "Hey Bird" contact call rather than immediately reappearing. Honking gives him no consequences. He's becoming much more "patient" with the frequency of the reinforcement, and I've worked on extending the length of my absences. "Hey Bird" is always reinforced, sometimes w/a "Hey Bird" back, sometimes my coming back in the room. Alex rarely resorts to honking anymore and when he does, he gets no response. Although when I hear him getting "desperate" - yep - a construct - LOL! he begins repeating "Hey Bird" repetitively, I know that I need to reinforce it, before he resorts to honking again.

So now we can say:

A=Janet has left the room
B=Alex says "Hey Bird"
C=Janet responds with "Hey Bird" back, or reappears

Probable future behavior: Alex will say "Hey Bird" to receive a contact call back, or my eventual, and inevitable reappearance.

Now it is interesting to note, that when I actually leave the house, Alex does not honk for me to return. It is rare that I leave my birds along for any extended period of time w/out having someone here...usually my mom. The birds are always caged when she is here. When I walk out the door, Alex honks, obviously because he knows that I'm leaving. But my mom has told me that as soon as he hears the garage door open, he stops. My 18 y/o daughter has confirmed this also. So this behavior only occurs when I'm home and in another room.

If I were to equate this into a construct, I would say Alex is SPOILED!! LOL! But constructs are a big NO-NO!!! smile

Last edited by EchosMom; 09/12/08 12:55 AM.

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#177682 - 09/12/08 05:06 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: EchosMom]  
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Quote:
Kim, no trick questions from me. Step up is a huge step for any bird. Humans have taught him to communicate "no" by biting and see how effective it is? You can change that. You need to start a new relationship from ground 0. We need to listen when our birds tell us they don't want to do something. If you build up a relationship based on mutual trust and respect, "a bird's no" will become a thing of the past. Can you think of 3 of his favourite treats?


The thing is, I never ask him to step up or ask to preen him. He sticks his foot out to be picked up, and then when I do he will "sometimes" bite. So I have resorted to using a chair to transport him.

I guess this would be an ABC.

A. Tori sticks foot out to step up and Kim obliges.
B. Tori bites Kim
C. Kim drops Tori and quitely leaves so she won't cry in front of him.

The probable future behavior will be that Kim will get bitten if she picks Tori up.

A. Tori sticks foot out to step up and Kim gets the chair
B. Tori steps up on chair
C. Kim transports Tori to where he wants to go without being bitten.

Probable future behavior - Tori gets where he wants to go without Kim being bitten.

Sorry, didn't mean to get ahead of myself.

The other thing that makes this difficult with him especially, is that he really does not have a favorite treat. He eats well. Fruits, raw and cooked veggies, beans and brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc. But he really does not favor nuts or seeds like my girls do. They go bonkers for nutri berrys, but he could care less about those types of things.

When he (from MY perspective) asks to be preened or loved if you will, he will bend his head over, bring his little foot up and caress himself very slowly and gently on the neck where he wants me to rub. He will also say in a very sweet and very quite voice, "hi tori" as he is doing this. This is what has me so baffeled. What is the trigger? Why is it that sometimes, he will sit and let me preen him without incident for an hour as he closes his eyes and enojoys it, while other times he will approach me in the exact same way ( maybe there is such a subtle change I don't notice?) yet when I reach down to rub him, he strikes like a snake? What is the trigger?????

Sorry again, I am just trying to give you a better picture even though this was not part of the lesson.


#177683 - 09/12/08 05:35 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: Kim & Lilly]  
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Kim, a Functional Analysis is environment=antecedent, behaviour=behaviour and environment=consequence. We will be working on those next.

There is definitely something being communicated Kim. Birds do not bite without a reason. We just need to figure out what that reason is. Also, the treat can be any of those things you mentioned. What is his favourite food? Just remove it from his diet and use it as a consequence for good behaviour. When Barb Heidenreich was at my place, everybody took turns feeding Gypsy. Barb just shook her head and said "I see a 40 minute training session there". LOL We have to use whatever our birds find reinforcing. It doesn't have to be nuts or seeds. My Zazu works best for a full head scratch. I cup her head with my hand for 20 seconds or so.

Now you said that when you reach down to rub him, he strikes like a snake. Is that because you reach for him? At those times, that he lets you preen him, did you reach for him then or did he approach you?

Feathered Angel: How about hubby having Ozzie's favourite toy in his hand. Ozzie will chew on the toy and not hubby. Simple antecedent change.

Jan: Does Daubbie find your attention really, really reinforcing?

Bev

Tomorrow we will learn about Functional Analysis. I will start a new thread on that. Is everyone clear on what a construct is and how using them prevents us from really looking at our bird's behaviour which is something we can change.

If I am missing anyone or anything, please let me know.


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#177684 - 09/12/08 05:47 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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So was I way off on my FA?

I never pick up or preen without being asked. He comes to me if he wants either. He shows me the signs I mentioned above, which lets me know what ( I think) he wants. Maybe not?

I never approach him to do things or force him to do anything he does not want to do. Never have. Maybe someone in his past did?

His favorite foods are probably pinto beans or maybe sweet potatoes. He loves all of it, he is such a good eater, thank goodness!

#177685 - 09/12/08 05:50 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally

Feathered Angel: How about hubby having Ozzie's favorite toy in his hand. Ozzie will chew on the toy and not hubby. Simple antecedent change.


Yes we have actually done this back when the biting was a bit more aggressive, thank you for the reminder though and we will pick up doing that again.

Deborah


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#177687 - 09/12/08 05:57 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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Yes Bev Duabbie does find my attention reinforcing.Unfortunately I definitely can't leave him on Gabby's Cage though.So I am really at a loss for what I need to do with this.I know I need to spend time with him when he is not on Gabby's cage but every time I turn around for a second he is trying to get to Gabby's domain.lol.


Jan

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#177688 - 09/12/08 06:27 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: Janny]  
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So Janny, if his attention tank is low, you need to fill it up by spending some time with him so that he doesn't fly to Gabby's cage to get your attention. See what I mean. So how about a short training session. How about teaching him to target. Very, very easy and then can be used to train other behaviours or some fun behaviours. We will work on a Functional Analysis to help you work through this but really you need to spend time with him. Give it a try and see what happens.

Kim, I'm going to explain what a FA is tomorrow and then we will all do one. Always pick the behaviour first and yes, birds are taught to bite by humans who don't listen to what their bird is communicating. When they are forced to do things, their last communication is a bite. And we all know that works to keep humans away. You have to avoid those bites because they are reinforcing to the bird. And you have to work on building a relationship based on trust and respect and that means never asking your bird to do something he/she does not want to do. It takes time to build that relationship but people have to remember you can't keep withdrawing from that account. It's only for deposits.

This is a statement from one of Dr. Friedman's lectures. I share it here because it is a powerful, powerful statement. Just think about it.

" The ability of every organism to affect its environment through the power of its own behavior is fundamental to behavioral health (Overmier & Seligman, 1967)".

How many of us do that for our parrots? We like to be able to make our own decisions. We don't like to be forced to do things we don't want to do. Why shouldn't our birds have those same choices? It is an empowering thing to give your bird and the outcome is wonderful.

Bev



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#177689 - 09/12/08 06:32 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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John, I also wanted to say "thank you, I appreciate it".


Bev


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#177690 - 09/12/08 07:42 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Last edited by Janny; 09/12/08 09:21 AM. Reason: Bev and Janet have asked for everyone to refrain from answering these posts because it may cause more confusion and they are leading this class.
#177746 - 09/12/08 08:04 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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Bev I understand you want me to spend time with him before he is jumping or flying to Gabby's cage right.But the thing is as soon as I open his cage I do spend about 1/2 hour with him while he is on his cage and then I take him off and give him some special mornign lovin' then I put him on his cage and tell him what a good boy he is and give him an avicake.Then I go to try and do the same with the next birdie in line and he scoots over to Gab's cage.I take him off the cage and return him to his own.I never let him stay on Gabby's cage for any length of time because I know it is a "intermitent reinforcer" so he is never allowed to stay.I never say a word to him because I am caught with the negative reinforcer.I just return him but my walking over to get him is reinforcement enough. frown I am not too sure how to get it so that I am giving him what he needs (my attention) without spending 24/7 with him.lol.


Jan

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#177808 - 09/13/08 06:00 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: Janny]  
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Janny, is it possible to put up a barrier (antecedent change) so that Daubbie can't fly to Gabby's cage. Like hanging a Get-a-Grip in his path. Or covering part of Gabby's cage so he can hide if he wants to.

If those things won't work, then you will be able to figure out a solution yourself using ABA.

Bev

PS: Functional Analysis will be tomorrow after I finish my housework.



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#177814 - 09/13/08 07:18 AM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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I will give anything a try.I will get building a get a grip to hang there tomorrow evening.Thanks Bev.


Jan

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#177865 - 09/13/08 09:41 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally

Tomorrow we will learn about Functional Analysis. I will start a new thread on that.


Am I just not seeing the new thread? LOL if it hasnt been started totally understand........ busy lives crazy , just didnt want to miss out if it was up and running.

Deborah


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#177866 - 09/13/08 10:29 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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Bev has not started the new "FA" thread yet...so stay tuned! smile


Last edited by EchosMom; 09/13/08 10:48 PM. Reason: added "not" (oops!)

Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

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#177870 - 09/13/08 11:09 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: EchosMom]  
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WOOTZ good to know I hadnt missed it hehe, TY EchosMom!

Deborah


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#205168 - 07/29/09 02:32 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: FeatheredAngels]  
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OK, for those that are interested, please read this thread and then give me a 3 constructs that you read here all the time and 3 behaviours.

First make sure you understand what a construct is. Any questions, please ask. You need to understand this before moving on the Functional Analysis in September.


Bev


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#205170 - 07/29/09 03:17 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: ZazuSally]  
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#205171 - 07/29/09 04:08 PM Re: It's showtime - School is in. [Re: Brandy's mom]  
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Are those behaviours or constructs?

Bev


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