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#170584 - 07/22/08 03:01 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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TiKa's Dad Offline
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John has been spanked... rightfully so.


John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#170585 - 07/22/08 03:03 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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No that's not true John you can be very helpful with your suggestions and knowledge. Just wanted to remind you that lots of folks come here looking for that knowledge and support.
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#170589 - 07/22/08 03:14 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I should know better. People wouldn't be here if they weren't already frustrated with a problem. I don't need to make it worse and need to keep reminding myself to hold back.

I've had to deal with so many dead beats over the years. Sometimes when I feel they aren't hearing what I'm saying I start pounding it into their head. It must be a man thing.

I welcome what you say. Sometimes I need it.

End of debate.

Last edited by TiKa's Dad; 07/22/08 03:16 AM.

John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#170602 - 07/22/08 03:45 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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In My Honest Opinion...When a cockatoo,or any other parrot comes into my home for that matter,it is not about showing them who is boss.It is about getting to know that parrot and trying to correct behaviours. Positive reinforcement is a good way.Sometimes to get there you do need to clip in order to work on those behaviours in the begining otherwise you may never get this under control. If this bird is flying and landing on shoulders to nip ears...it can be very hard to get that to stop unless you take that flight away first and then teach it shoulder is a no no.I don't allow any of my parrots on the shoulder for obvious reasons...it is dangerous.Bites can happen very quickly and are unavoidable.

John sometimes a person can become very stubern and set in their ways amd actually block information given even if it is good information because of the delivery of information.I was told years ago never to assume a person knows anything when you are trying to teach them something.I took a course to teach our self defense for work and the instructor who taught me said okay teach me how to smoke.Of course I said you start by opening the package...well he did.He ripped the package open and there were cigerettes flying everywhere (so glad I did not smoke and they were not mine) I said what the heck are you doing.He said I did what you told me and opened the cig package...did I do it wrong.I said yes why did you rip them open now the package is ruined.He said well how are you supposed to open it I don't know.It made me realise I had skipped some very important information on how to really open them by pushing through the bottom of the package until you could see and take out a smoke.

Now to put it another way...Someone just bought a bird they come here and ask what do I do and we say well you have to feed it...so they go and grab a bag of chips out of the cupboard and fill a dish...we never told them what to feed it right...same goes for anything bird related I believe.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#170637 - 07/22/08 05:41 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Janny]  
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Mothra's Mom Offline
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Just to clarify--I don't have a parade of different people coming in and out of my home, it's only a few close friends and often they are there specifically to see Mothra. So it's not out of the question that they could learn to do a specific technique, etc. And I also don't have to worry about them suing me--but of course I don't want anyone to get hurt (Mothra included).

Also, I have never bought any birds and believe that birds (and most animals) should not be kept as "pets". The problem is caring for the ones who are already homeless. I work in an open admission adoption center and am an extremely firm believer in adoption.

So, to sum up the suggestions, I should:

1) definitely not allow her on my shoulder, ever
2) if she does get on my shoulder, give her a time-out in her cage inside her room for a few minutes then bring her back out---do this every single time
3) intercept her when possible and safe, in hopes of teaching her to aim for a hand/arm instead of a shoulder and to only come when invited

Does this sound right??



"Ask not for whom the cockatoo shrieks. She shrieks for thee..."
#170638 - 07/22/08 05:50 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Mothra's Mom]  
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No you don't need to time her out for getting on your shoulder.Just remover her from your shoulder and say a firm no.She will get the idea eventually. Try to stop or intercept her on the move there like when she starts moving to the elbow just take her with the other hand and if she sits there a bit tell her yes good girl.Give her a small sunflower seed or something that size as a treat.Positive reiforcement.

The rest sounds very good.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#170639 - 07/22/08 05:58 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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Yes, Tika's Dad---I didn't respond to your first reply because it completely turned me off. I was actually hoping for good advice from you in particular because I read some of your replies on other threads and they were right on.

Your concept of leadership sounds like it's mixed up with dominance theory, or maybe it was just a poor choice of words to say that she needs to be taken "down a notch"? I also can't see comparing flight to driving a car. Flight is part of their being, not a privilege we should take away in exchange for acceptable house behavior.

All I'm interested in is giving Mothra the best life I can give her for the next 60+ years. I'm going to check out Susan Friedman's PBAS listserve group for more ideas on how to live with a fully flighted parrot, and other things.

More ideas from Mytoo'ers are welcome!

Emily

#170641 - 07/22/08 06:04 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Janny]  
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Quote:
I welcome what you say. Sometimes I need it.


I understand. More hand holding. Less preaching. Kid gloves.


John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#170642 - 07/22/08 06:08 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Mothra's Mom]  
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I'm a little late in responding but wanted to add to the discussion.

It's been my experience that the arrival of guests always produces alot of excitement. And excitement can lead to unpredictable behavior. I NEVER let any of my birds out when company first arrives...even when it is someone that they know very well.

Once everyone is settled (guests and birds), THEN, depending upon the assessment of each individual birds frame of mind, I bring them out to say their proper "hellos" and visit.

I never leave uncaged birds and guests unattended - for the safety of both human and bird.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#170643 - 07/22/08 06:18 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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Hand holding? No. A detailed, related response is welcome, not vague ideas I can read anywhere.

And with that I cease and desist! Information, not mud slinging...


"Ask not for whom the cockatoo shrieks. She shrieks for thee..."
#170646 - 07/22/08 06:37 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Mothra's Mom]  
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Liz wilson says what I should have said.
Quote:
One thing is virtually guaranteed - increased hormone levels often lead to increased aggressiveness -- this is documented in many/ most animal species and parrots are no exception. And it follows that if your parrot is established as dominant in its relationship with you, you can expect it to try to tell you how to behave -- and you can expect yourself and other humans around you to be the recipient of violence if your behaviors don't measure up to your bird's exacting standards (following orders is tough when you don't speak the language). As head of the flock, your parrot is only doing his/her job. On the other hand, if you are well established as head of the flock (thanks to having established a relationship of loving controls with your feathered friend), then your parrot (being in a submissive position) will generally wait for you to show it how to act towards others. In a nutshell, increased aggression is to be expected -- but a parrot in a submissive role can be expected to display less aggression than one that perceives itself to be head of the flock.


I apologize to you personally.

Last edited by TiKa's Dad; 07/22/08 06:54 AM.

John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#170652 - 07/22/08 07:54 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: TiKa's Dad]  
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**********

Last edited by Janny; 07/22/08 07:59 AM. Reason: uncalled for response

Abe
#170653 - 07/22/08 07:58 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Ketrel]  
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Ketrel...I took your response out.What in that response is at all helpful to this situation. I have been watching this for a few days and it needs to end right here right now.Unless you are posting HELPFUL advice in your responses do not bother posting! Have I been heard?


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#170658 - 07/22/08 09:08 AM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Janny]  
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Yes maam sorry.


Abe
#170685 - 07/22/08 05:28 PM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Janny]  
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Mothra. I hesitate to add anything more to this post because I just don't want to offend anyone. But your situation is important and I feel what I have to say is useful. No more stupid analogies. Just what I know.

In my mind your bird IS the leader of your flock.

Another wildlife story: Once the bird has established itself as the leader of the flock. He takes that role for life. He will defend it to the death. They're not like people who quit their jobs. The leader defends the flock. He establishes and ENFORCES the rules. Any contenders to the throne are quickly brought into line or chased from the flock.

The leader is dominant and expects everyone else to tow the line. He will defend his position to the death. Or serious injury at the least.

If your bird does not assume a new role as a "submissive" flock member and you be established as the "leader". He is going to continue to do his "natural" job. Forever. I little bit of training is not going make him give up his leadership role.

To change this you are going to have to do something that does NOT happen in nature. They don't trade jobs. The only way the leader relinquishes his position is if a bigger, stronger bird comes along and tries to take it away. There may even be a fight to the death.

I am also NOT in favor of wing clipping. Your bird needs to accept a more submissive role in the flock or your problem will not go away. So I have no idea how your going to do this without making the bird come down a "notch" and learn to be more submissive. (absolutely no offense intended). In nature the newcomer would have probably just killed him.

Originally Posted By: Janny
When a cockatoo,or any other parrot comes into my home for that matter,it is not about showing them who is boss.It is about getting to know that parrot and trying to correct behaviours. Positive reinforcement is a good way.Sometimes to get there you do need to clip in order to work on those behaviours in the begining otherwise you may never get this under control. If this bird is flying and landing on shoulders to nip ears...it can be very hard to get that to stop unless you take that flight away first and then teach it shoulder is a no no.


The solution is in your hands, not ours. Only you can decide what to do.


John
Another 24 hours down. Only a lifetime to go. God speed! ~AngiesArk~ laugh
#170689 - 07/22/08 05:53 PM Re: Dive bombing [Re: Mothra's Mom]  
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Sally Blanchard has a saying that I believe in and I think it applies in your case. You have a parrot that "is in charge of his own life and doing a poor job of it". They are like small children in more ways than one, they will get away with anything they can. It can be subtle and one day you wake up to find an out of control bird. Birds like to be high and see around them, this is natural behavior and not related to domination. You have good ideas for progressing in your previous post and you have been given some good advice. I would suggest a Mytoos search for "positive reinforcement" and start rewarding good behaviors and ignoring bad behaviors.

Always remember that safety of humans has to be the foremost consideration. You would not want to live with the consequences of the damage a large parrot can inflict. You can also do a Google search for articles by Barbara Heidenreich, Sam Foster and Steve Martin. This will open your eyes to many of your birds behaviors.

I am locking this topic because of arguments. Feel free to start again after you have digested some of this material.

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