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#136055 - 09/28/07 05:42 PM Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!!  
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mandymmr Offline
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When I first started on here there are a few people who came accross harsh and a little rude. Since then I have realized to not take things so personal- toughen my skin and open my ears and mind...but I can't help that there are those who I feel are almost driving new members away. In a way I don't blame those people. But I also agree with everyone that we are all ignorant till we learn more. Now that I know much more about not breeding and only recuing 2nd hand birds i also understand your points. But please keep in mind that some people are harsh with their wors and make the newbies feel like they are getting yelled at and stupid. There are some poeple that will just think forget about it and leave this forum still not knowing or understanding and there fore probably will go out and buy from a breeder. I think this is very sad. I read and reread about your agenda... I also think that on there is should treat other members with respect and not so harsh.

Please don't think I am talking about me, but since I have been on here for almost 2 months I have heard a lot of complaints from new people that they are being yelled at or being rude to. I think us all being adults we can get our point accross much more maturely and polite. Just my oppinion. I was raised to treat others the ways I want to be treated and I guess it just makes me upset that there are people out there that don't think that way or even care if they hurt someone's feelings.


Humans are the only animals that are mean on purpose
#136077 - 09/28/07 06:48 PM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: mandymmr]  
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Mandy I to felt the same way and voiced my opinion about this same thing. When I first signed up for this site I felt attacked and then just read and read but didn't say much. My "feelings" were hurt and my ego. I am not a young woman and very sensitive and I have a tendency to take things personally so I was "hurt". I have learned after all this time that it is just the "passion" we all feel about our birds that caused me to feel hurt. I for one try very hard to word things so as not to "hurt" peoples "feelings" in every thing I do. I work with the public and have most of my life and I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. If others on this site kept that in mind then we wont lose as many people from this site. Yes it took quite a bit of time for me to "get it" but I have it now. I think that we have come along way from my first post. I know it's frustrating when unknowing new people get on this site and just don't understand but if we can be "friendly" we can still get our point across. After all, we are patient with our new birds. We don't yell at them or "attack" them do we?

#136080 - 09/28/07 07:00 PM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Diane048]  
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Diane-
I understand what you are saying. I for one do not get my feelings hurt easily- nor am I sensitive at all. I grew up pretty much a tomboy. But I do notice that there are so many others commenting about how people come across rude.. PASSIONATE OR NOT. You can still be passionate but with tackt. I also work witht he public and you have to learn very quickly to get your point across nicely. IT ISN'T RIGHT THAT PEOPLE COME HERE FOR ADVICE AND HELP and then turn around as you said and really didn't say much. I guess I am basically trying to POLITELY say for everyone to try to think about how you are wording things because you may be inadvertantly hurting someone elses fellings to deter them from coming back, and I know you all have the best intent for the birds as well as us. I have to say that this is my all time favorite forum. I come here in the mornings at work and am on all day till I leave. But I will alos say that this CAN be the most ruthless forum at times as well. Once again I am not saying this about me, just what I notice with other people especially those who are just learning and not knowing as much.


Humans are the only animals that are mean on purpose
#136132 - 09/28/07 09:14 PM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: mandymmr]  
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Okay, I'll bite! grin This is without doubt the largest cockatoo help site available, and the best! Do some people go off angry? Sure. We don't allow PM's, e-mail exchange, advertising, cliques, groups or any thing but true cockatoo facts and experiences. The staff and long time members do not have the time or inclination to sit around and coddle new members. It's difficult enough to keep breeders and spammers away! One does not have to join Mytoos either. You can see the numbers of anonymous readers here at any hour of any day. We sign up an average of 3.5 new members per day. We are not a bunch of ogres, as you guys now see, but we will not allow valuable site resources to be used up with hand holding. It's not personal; it is a way to keep things moving efficiently.

Straight from the "Mytoos Agenda":

Quote:
We are not a "fluff" board. This means, that while we welcome your stories, photos etc about your birds, and have a section devoted to those type discussions, do not be put off by our firm and often blunt answers to serious questions. We are here to help you and your bird/s but the BIRDS are our primary concern and if we are going to do that sometimes it means getting in your face a bit and just "telling it like it is". If you want the unvarnished, plain truth about Cockatoos and other parrots, you've come to the right place, if you want to be validated for doing something that we may feel is not in the best interest of the BIRDS, you might want to find another bird board. There are a lot of them out there that will be glad to tell you what you want to hear, we aren't one of them. We'll tell you what you NEED to hear, and its not always going to be pretty.

#136137 - 09/28/07 10:15 PM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Charlie]  

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I am the biggest cry baby and door mat on this planet...Im not kidding.I use to walk off from this site crying my eyes out and swear to never come back...and not really because something was said harshly to me really but just because everything seemed so HARSH! I cried for the PEOPLE who things were said to, I cried because of the bluntness things were said on here.

Today, I still walk away crying...A LOT but my reasons are much different now than a couple years ago.

Now I cry because I know in my heart what is going to ultimatley happen to a bird. I cry because I have spent days and days pooring my heart out trying to help- a bird only to get a swift kick in the face from the person I poored my heart out to. I cry because sometimes I see its just HOPELESS. I refuse to stroke someones ego just because they are new. I do however do my very best to be kind but it isnt easy. I too have gotten to the point where I read a post, take a deep breath and just walk away because IM TIRED... Im tired of the same o same o.

You will notice that when someone makes a huge {or little even} milestone with there bird, pay attention...the members of this board will ralley togather and rejoice, jump up and down and even give praises.....because we care about THE BIRD!! We grieve togather like a family when something unfortunate happens. When something important comes up...the members here get togather and make a difference and they fight togather.

Geee I forgot what I was trying to say. Never mind.

#136150 - 09/28/07 11:18 PM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Charlie]  
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I'll bite too. This is my journey/observation on how I came to change my view from mytoos needing to 'be nicer' to 'not always necessary'. It is far from complete--I'm just highlighting a few points.

When I first came here, I made a remark ie that 'mytoos's harshness would and have turned people away. (Now bear in mind, I've been and still am member of much harsher forums which has nothing to do with animals/birds and which will put mytoos's harshness to shame). The answer given by Jerry was that many people and cockatoos were saved by this website. This caused me to think, recall, observe and check with people, past experiences etc when they would be convinced etc. Actually much more than just when they were convinced, angry etc in forums, in real life, in work etc. Yeah, I did a fair bit of homework before even thinking of making another view of mytoos harshness.

I then realized that actually 'a great deal of niceness for mytoos' actually would likely cause more detriment to cockatoos (which is what Mytoos is trying to prevent).
Why?
1a) Many people who are experienced are likely to shrink from answering 'sensitive people's questions' or shrink from answering (more) questions if they have to be 'as nice as required by these people who complain'. The 2 main reasons are that it takes too much time (due to coddling and hand holding) and who likes to deal /talk to sensitive people? Even in work where there is an incentive for people to be nicer, they don't even do it--what more of a internet forum.

1b) People who require too much 'coddling/niceness'--it would be better that they use the search function to find what they need. It will save time for everybody. Why? Well, there is no necessity to keep explaining the same things over and over again which will take up time from experienced owners and there will be less 'unneccessary/repeated' threads for new people to read/search through.


2a) When a person disagree with another person because of different 'wants' (eg: what's best for the cockatoo versus what I want for myself), 'talking nice/polite' forever will not get you anywhere in the convincing game. It will just make the person who wants the cockatoo at all cost less angry/annoyed with you. That's that. So when all the facts, pleas, reasoning, testimonials are done, that's when you need to take a harsher stand by challenging the person to really look deep within himself and state what's the real reason why he still wants the too. That's when you plant the seed (yes, the seed is planted despite his anger).This is important not only because of the above but also because for all those future people wanting a cockatoo who may see the thread. Why? Well, people will always say so what--there are people that don't agree that the cockatoo is bad for him. So you need to let these future people know what's the real reason for why that person still wants the too. You need to make it clear enough for these other future too owners to understand without couching it in 'niceness' that may result in others not fathoming the real reason because of the 'niceness'. It will help them to decide whether a too is suitable for them. Also, this is because when that person gets a too, the main party that suffer is the too/toos, not so much the person per se((if it was the person suffering the worse--then there would be no problem as to being nice as that person will soon learn his lesson) and there is a time limit when the person gets the too---so its even more crucial to plant the seed now by challenging the person to look deep within himself instead of still being nice. This may/may not work for the person but it will help future too owners.

Even if the person gets the too and runs into problem, this person can always come back to Mytoos to look for information either as an anonymous using the search engine or by creating a new member name. Yeah, the person may be angry enough not to come back here to look for help but chances are slim that the person will not do so when he runs into big trouble and is trying to keep the too.

2b) Also, can you imagine if this person still goes ahead and get the baby too and continue to be on this board posting messages because we are 'nice'? This person is likely to start posting message saying how great his purchased baby too is now and say nothing wrong with buying a baby too as long as one does one's research when the next newbie comes here asking about advise on buying baby toos. Meanwhile, now you will need even more members or more posts disagreeing with this person (who just bought his baby too). What a waste of resource and certainly not what Mytoos want. Now maybe then wouldn't it be better that the person uses the search function anonymously for his new baby too?


3) Usually when people need to be as nice as required, those future too owners that ask questions will tend to take a more 'relaxed' attitude and tend not to realize how serious this commitment is. But when everyone/most people are 'passionate', he will start sitting straighter and realise it's not as easy as it seems


4) Quite a few times its better to let too sensitive people/people that requires 'niceness' go instead of trying to keep convincing them nicely on not buying a too or some other matter. Why? Would anyone like to be in company of these people? One will always be looking behind one's shoulder as to whether what they say is too offensive or not. Also, more often than not 'this people who requires niceness' are also rude/harsh at times--its just that nobody wants to tell them that--so it becomes something of a double standard. It just gets tiring and not worth it after some time. You want to be around people that can take some harshness. Its more fun and less time consuming. Also, less posts needed to keep explaining and so searching for other more important stuff will be faster. Saves time


Having said the above, does it mean we always have to be harsh. No. It really depends on situation etc. There is no 1 size fits all. However, I feel that 'the too much niceness' that is required by some are only detrimental to Mytoos. There are times to be nicer, there are times to be less nice. Usually if the person doing something wrong is the one that will hurt most instead of where other birds/animals will hurt more than the person, greater niceness for the former rather than the latter is warranted. After all, no problem, the person is the one who will suffer for his 'wrongs' and will learn soon enough what's the right thing to do. However, 'all niceness' is also not practical for the former because of the time spent by others explaining etc

Last edited by gn18; 09/28/07 11:43 PM.
#136161 - 09/29/07 01:15 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: gn18]  
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I have to share my experience on this one.

In 2003 we had a gal here ( Older gal) who was desperate for help.
We all mothered her both on the board, thru P.M. ( we had it at that time) and Live chat. We would spend hours and hours a day trying to help her thru the issues, she became dependant on us to be her everything~ After two months of all being Moms- She still ended up getting rid of her Goffin.

I just simply dont have days, weeks- years to help someone who just wants to give up their bird becouse they are in over their heads. Do I want to find a workable solution for bird and owners, absolutly.....I think the people that want true help, and not permission can take it- The others that just want to hear what they WANT us to tell them....Those are the ones that get bent and leave.

Last edited by liviray; 09/29/07 01:15 AM.
#136167 - 09/29/07 03:17 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: liviray]  
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Yep, anyone who needs 'mothering' or hand-holding sure as heck should not be anywhere near a cockatoo of any kind.

Sorry but sometimes the phrase "Suck it Up" just comes to mind.

If any of the REALLY old posts are still available you will see just how much this board HAS become 'kinder & gentler' towards new members.

So... if you don't like the sermon... find another church to attend!

"Suck It Up"

Cheers,


Liisa

#136168 - 09/29/07 03:24 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Liisa B]  

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laugh laugh laugh Omg I need to dry my key board out now!!!






Originally Posted By: Liisa B
Yep, anyone who needs 'mothering' or hand-holding sure as heck should not be anywhere near a cockatoo of any kind.

Sorry but sometimes the phrase "Suck it Up" just comes to mind.

If any of the REALLY old posts are still available you will see just how much this board HAS become 'kinder & gentler' towards new members.

So... if you don't like the sermon... find another church to attend!

"Suck It Up"

Cheers,


Liisa

#136172 - 09/29/07 04:04 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: ]  
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I gotta say that everyone was really nice to me when I came. I had just bought a cockatoo at a bird store, and had no idea what i was getting myself into.
I was not yelled at, offended or anything in the sort. I had just came from a site that referred me to this polace thinking that they would talk me into giving Chewy up.
I did not know this. And Luckily Thank God, that was the farthest thing everyone here tried to do. I am sure thatI was pointed out the AGENDA but So is everyone.
Then when I found out that the bird store was scum and sold me a sick bird they once again, even though I stuck up for the freaking store, for a long time before I realized my precious baby was sick, they came around me.
I admit to being a little offended when they erased my posts, and I think that I will continue to get offended but I know that it is for the best interest of everyhone opn here that didn't post what I did.
This is a great place. Some times I disagree with what is said but I think I would get htat whereever I go.
Edit to add. I think that while people will find this place to be a little gruff, they will end up loving it as I do.

Last edited by Chewy; 09/29/07 04:05 AM.

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#136174 - 09/29/07 04:15 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Liisa B]  
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Originally Posted By: Liisa B

If any of the REALLY old posts are still available you will see just how much this board HAS become 'kinder & gentler' towards new members.

So... if you don't like the sermon... find another church to attend!

"Suck It Up"

Cheers,


Liisa


Amen sista friend. I've actually mellowed since 2002. whistle

#136177 - 09/29/07 04:28 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Mona]  
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You!!!!!!!Mello- ROTFLMAO,

Oh Mona....I just love you to peices!

You my dear, along with so many old time members here- I hold so close to my heart.....Now Im gonna go read some of your mello post from 2005....HAHAHAHAHAHA


#136179 - 09/29/07 04:52 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: liviray]  
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So when people get fed up/tired of hearing the complaints that people need to be 'very nice', you will see 'short,sharp comments like some of the above' which may cause people requiring niceness to get even more angry. They are not going to bother to explain anymore as they feel it just takes too much time and the people that require 'niceness' is unable to understand the required harshness at times. So it doesn't help anybody now does it?

Having said that, we need to be more discerning as to when to use harshness and niceness etc. Don't always be 'sharp and short' just because its the faster way out. similarly don't always use niceness just because we are hoping that person will contine to stay with us. There is a bigger pool of lurkers reading the posts that will likely benefit from clearer words that are not vague because of the niceness factor.

#136180 - 09/29/07 04:53 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: liviray]  
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Input from a newbie.
I lurked here for about a week, before joining. I was recommended this site from another bird bb (Ya know, the fluffy kind). They told me to lie or else I would be eaten up alive.

Well, lying isn't gonna help me, and for sure won't help Pearl.
When I first posted, I was ready to get "yelled" at. But that didn't happen. I have been warmly received, and have gotten lots of good advice and info.

I respect this site and the agenda that it has. I like the no fluff. Fluff isn't going to help Pearl or I.

In other threads that I have read, I really didn't see anyone being mean and nasty. Just telling it like it is. Maybe someday I will be able to contribute some useful advice, but for now I am all about learning has much as I can.

Thanking all who have responded to my posts. whistle

#136181 - 09/29/07 05:03 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: liviray]  
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Originally Posted By: liviray

You my dear, along with so many old time members here- I hold so close to my heart.....Now Im gonna go read some of your mello post from 2005....HAHAHAHAHAHA


uh oh...

LOL when this board first opened, Jerry and I were already battling breeders from our old board, so we had to be a bit tough in the beginning, to make our point that we were NOT a fluffy feel good board.

Jerry opened this board to educate and tell the side of parrots that isn't always pretty and "sweet", but needed to be told along with the good stuff.

Sometimes we were gruff and blunt, but we wanted to help others avoid the mistakes WE had made, before the internet was around to reach out and help.

So...sometimes I feel like a nut...and sometimes I don't.
crazy

#136184 - 09/29/07 05:12 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: u2pearl]  
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U2pearl,

Those people that ask you to lie don't really understand Mytoos at all. Mytoos aim is to reduce the suffering of captive cockatoos and tell people that cockatoos aren't good pets. What would it accomplish if we are nasty to someone who already bought a cockatoo? None--it will only make it worse. Thus, there is no necessity to lie in your case.

Even in cases where people haven't got cockatoos, among the 1st steps should be directing them to the home page so that they can get a better feel as to what keeping cockatoos are like. Then directing them to the mytoos agenda if they haven't seen it yet. Then for whomever is interested, the personal testimony, facts, reasoning etc and ask them to do a ton of searching in the forum. Most of the time there's no necessity to be harsh but the 'telling it like it is' will need to be done. How 'hard/nice' it is done will be on a case by case basis--depends on situation etc. The problem is that people are so used to 'needing it to be nice--no doubt spoilt by other forums as there's a benefit to retain as many members as possible due to sales of baby birds/toys/advertisements/food etc, that they start believing its the prerogative of people to answer them in the way they want to hear (they start to belief that this is what is called 'being nice/polite etc').

Those that stay even though they have never been 'yelled at'before but are now 'yelled at' are those that have a clear understanding of what their main goal is ie the welfare of the bird. That's when they can/are willing to toughen themselves up to receive the barrage of 'not so nice comments--be it justifiable or not' as they know that this is one of the best place on cockatoo information. In the long run, it also help them--not only in keeping their too/moving ahead without a too but also in their ability to face life challenges in the workforce etc.

Last edited by gn18; 09/29/07 05:16 AM.
#136190 - 09/29/07 05:55 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: gn18]  
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Originally Posted By: gn18
U2pearl,

Those people that ask you to lie don't really understand Mytoos at all. Mytoos aim is to reduce the suffering of captive cockatoos and tell people that cockatoos aren't good pets. What would it accomplish if we are nasty to someone who already bought a cockatoo? None--it will only make it worse. Thus, there is no necessity to lie in your case.




Very well spoken.

#136202 - 09/29/07 07:30 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: liviray]  
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Okay, once again I was wrong to whine. You guys are all correct. I have tried several times to get through to new people not to buy or get rid of a Bird just to be ignored. I also feel very passionate about if you make the commitment to a Bird then you "owe" the bird for it's life time not yours. Sometimes harsh words are the only way to get through to some people. Okay, it was just me that got my "feelings" hurt but hey I'm still here and still learning. So much for "feelings", you reached my brain if not my heart.

#136209 - 09/29/07 07:56 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: Diane048]  

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For what its worth, I truley believe that no one ever intentionally sets out to hurt anyones feelings. I also believe that because this is all typed out and not face to face not everyone will always take it the same as others. I think if we were all sitting around the kitchen table {real big table, lol} and discussing cockatoos and learning from eachother it would be different because we could see eachothers eyes and face when it was said. For some reason that helps me when I read something that rubs me wrong, or hits my heart strings I try to remember maybe Im just taking it to hard.

Im glad you are still here.

Angel





Originally Posted By: Diane048
Okay, once again I was wrong to whine. You guys are all correct. I have tried several times to get through to new people not to buy or get rid of a Bird just to be ignored. I also feel very passionate about if you make the commitment to a Bird then you "owe" the bird for it's life time not yours. Sometimes harsh words are the only way to get through to some people. Okay, it was just me that got my "feelings" hurt but hey I'm still here and still learning. So much for "feelings", you reached my brain if not my heart.

Last edited by mom2beebop; 09/29/07 08:04 AM. Reason: typo
#136216 - 09/29/07 10:59 AM Re: Posting oppinions & comments NICELY!!!! [Re: ]  
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Diane, it takes courage and honesty to say what you have said. This may be 1 of your strong point and as you stay longer here, you will no doubt learn other skills (besides cockatoos) while sharing with us your knowledge/experience on other stuff and not just toos.

Ok, a lighthearted moment,I so wish I can learn M2bb's writing skills. I'm impressed with her.

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