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#131481 - 08/09/05 12:36 AM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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bigjerry Offline
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Sunny Sarasota Florida
Julz, no one has suggested BARRING anyone, or keeping them from knowing the truth. I suggest you re read my original post, and try to absorb the point I am making.

#131482 - 08/12/05 02:54 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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bigjerry Offline
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And this morning, yet another I'm on my way to the pet shop to collect a baby post. Its becoming almost daily .Please make it stop.

#131483 - 08/12/05 04:21 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Michael Offline
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Anyone is welcome to be a mytoos message board membership, even if they don't believe in the mytoos philosophy. This includes breeders and people that purchase babies from breeders and pet stores. Provided they are not here to cause trouble, do not try to subvert our agenda or abuse the message board and its members (posting of profanity for example).

Information about the message board and some does and don't can be read at the following link

New Members Please Read

We are not going to run people off intentionally. But no one should expect a pat on the back from us when they post that they just bought a baby. Especially members that have been around for a period of time and should be aware of the mytoos agenda.

I like many others get tired of answering the same posts over and over again. Especially when this message board contains a search feature. But we must remember that for each new member this is the first time they have asked the question. They are most likely unaware that it has already been asked and answered many times before.

We can write elaborate text that is sent with each registration email. However this does little good if new users don't take the time to read it.

#131484 - 08/12/05 04:49 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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wildirish Offline
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NC
I agree with not runing people off, and to simply explain what this site is about to them and try to educate them..

I know alot of the newbies are kind of shocked to learn that this isn't a "normal" Too board, that was why I mentioned just a simple subtitle on the main message board, stating something to the effect of anti breeding or something like it.

Most of the time it doesn't bother me, and I either ignore the post or tell them to read the home page. I guess it bothers me more when it has been along standing member who know what MyToos is all about.

TAmmy

#131485 - 08/12/05 04:53 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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King Les Offline
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Michigan
Here's my suggestion smile

Regardless as to where else you may put a notice that this is an anti buy/sell board, I think it should also be contained in the: Before You Ask A Question, See If It's Already Been Answered ...

I think it should be the first question...something like: Why does this board think breeding toos in captivity and selling them is wrong and cruel...then give links to the front page and maybe discussion threads.

I would also like to see at the bottom of the 'Before you ask a question': Didn't find the question or answer you were looking for? and then a direct link to the search feature..

edited to add:
Quote:
I guess it bothers me more when it has been along standing member who know what MyToos is all about.
Tammy, that is the only thing that bothers me. New people not knowing what the site is about doesn't phase me at all.

#131486 - 08/12/05 05:56 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Johnnie Offline
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NJ
I tend to agree with a couple of peoples suggestions about new people who post that they are GOING to buy a bird and want suggestions. I believe this is the opportunity to try to educate them. We are not always going to be successful in stopping them but again maybe we can open their eyes to adopting. I think that being negative to the new member will do more harm than good. I have been reading a lot of post from way back and found many memebers here who bought birds rather than adopt.Hopefully these same people will reflect on their experience and use that as a guide to help others from doing the same.I will be honest in saying I was tempted a few times when I seen poor living conditions of birds in pet shops. Luckily I never did, but only because I know that bird will just be replaced in a short time so I really wouldn't have helped at all.

Johnnie

#131487 - 08/12/05 06:09 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Jerry Offline
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I have NEVER had any problem with ignorant people purchasing birds and then coming here for help. We were pretty much ALL ignorant at one time.

My problem is with the people who KNOW better, especially members in standing here. I also refuse to hand-out any information on the tube feeding of baby birds no matter HOW ignorant the owner is because of liability issues.

Finally, it's almost impossible for a breeder to be a member of this board. Why? Well... have you ever known a breeder to come here simply to help.. without EVER promoting or defending breeding? If that were possible, and they kept their activities to themselves, I wouldnt have a problem. But again, I think that's asking too much of them.

There are hundreds of bird message boards out there where Mytoos is trashed every hour of every day. We're an easy target because we are causing a lot to people to loose a LOT of money! Naturally we're a huge target! But I dont care WHAT they say, as long as they dont say it here. So yes... we'll help birds, but we wont take kindly to those promoting the purchase of their new bird or breeders promoting the business.

#131488 - 08/12/05 06:22 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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cujos_mom Offline
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North of Toronto, Ontario, Can...
Quote:
Tammy, that is the only thing that bothers me. New people not knowing what the site is about doesn't phase me at all.
...exactly and I can't for the life of me understand why it bothers certain people so much. It's like, OMG, some disgusting cockroach just slipped through the cracks. confused I'm sure there are many perfectly decent people (like a lot of us here who purchased birds from a pet store or a breeder) who happen on this site or will in the future and who are merely uninformed or haven't had reason prior to visiting the board to consider the reality of birds in captivity, especially Cockatoos. When it happens someone from the board will, in short order, describe the mandate/philosophy of the site and therein lies an opportunity to explain your position and possibly enlighten someone to a new way of thinking. If barriers to the site are made prominent, it could dissuade certain individuals who otherwise might be quite amendable to an anti-breeding/buying stance, from ever entering the site to begin with. There's no hope then.

#131489 - 08/12/05 11:40 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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flowerchild Offline
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New England
i appreciate the passion of the mods and most of the members here. i understand the frustration. when i discovered this site, and opened the page with the too screaming and the "so you think you want a too" letter i laughed so hard i cried, because in this case you were preaching to the choir, and i was thrilled to find a group of like minded people that had rescue info available.
i have bought birds, and i have bred them (tiels) in the past. i came to these conclusions on my own, the hard way. babies i had sold were carelessly lost, people refused to believe that they needed more than seed to be happy and healthy, etc. and i just couldn't do it anymore- oh, let's not forget my all-time favorite- would i hand feed a baby for them( for the same price, of course) because "only hand-fed babies are truly tame and bonded." i was feeling pretty alone in my campaign to stop people from acquiring parrots on a whim, and consider myself to be in very good company here. and being as informed as i could be, i have still learned very much here. but i understand that most people don't know the plight of these birds, and if we keep chasing them away before they see the mission statement we are losing the battle. i am heartened beyond belief when someone comes to us before they buy, and doesn't purchase at all or chooses to support a rescue. and for those who did't know any better-this is my chance to educate. every one who registers being sent to the home page first just makes sense. and i'd like to close with thank you and hugs for all the mods and rescue workers among us. it's an uphill battle but we're behind you all the way!

#131490 - 08/15/05 03:19 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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matilda Offline
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minesota
just a question for some of you who have so little patience for new members, when you first got your birds, no matter how many years ago, how excited were you? 2nd question, did many of you make mistakes at first? wouldn't it be great if we could hold our angry angry mad mad and educate these people better. i haven't been to this site for awhile because of family commitments. i see some still YELL ALOT! i just ask 1 last question, could we not be more civilized? yes i know that alot of new people come in here and through ignorance and or new exuberance seem to step on toes. many really don't do so to get a rise out of any one. i have been in shoes where i felt like i was a target and then in a short time another new person comes around, new target. i see not much has changed. this is not negative. i know you and this board is an anti breeding board. had i not found this sight the times i was out in public with my m2 and people asked if i would breed her[which my answer is a resounding NO!] i would maybe do just that. but not now! i guess it would be nice to education first, judge later and give people time to learn. i tought my kids when they were real young to hold their patience in there hand. that way they could hold it real tight in their fist while time seemed not to go on. maybe some could use that in here. there will always be new members who for the first time are asking questions that may be repeated over again. some questions get off the screen, and until they are around for awhile they won't know where to go to find history in here. please before anything if this is truely a anti-breeding include all, lets educate first, be more positive, and not so mad

#131491 - 08/15/05 03:58 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Johnnie Offline
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NJ
Matilda you made a very good point and I have to agree with what your saying. I am against buying birds and I believe everyone here is. I was a little taken back when I first became a member and was reading some of the older post.People make mistakes that's for sure I have surely made my share. I seen where the very people that were going after a new member for buying or talking about buying had in fact bought their bird. So If these people could just remember back to when they made a mistake I think they could use that to help educate the new member.We don't have to like what the new member has done but we can help them to understand the mistake they have made. Who knows-- that new member may become one of the best advocates against selling birds. I am constantly talking to people about not buying and I am sure I have upset a few people in the pet industry. I do think they know I am right and probably why I am not kicked out of the stores. Educate, Educate, Educate!!

Johnnie

#131492 - 08/17/05 06:18 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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flowerchild Offline
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New England
perhaps this will make you smile as it did me. my sister informed me the other day the lab that she had rescued was going in to be neutered, my neice's boyfriend chimed it that this was cruel, and my neice said "why don't you breed him for money?" my daughter, 14, who has endured countless lectures on why this is unacceptable, replied, "steph, i can't believe you said that, get her mommy!"

#131493 - 11/25/05 09:19 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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2toos Offline
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Maryland
I am a newbie...before I found this site I bought one bird from a breeder and a week later, another from a Pet Store. THAN thank goodness I found this site. And I felt horrible...but learned SO much on here after the fact! And not one single person on here has been at all condemning or mean to me- just reassuring and supportive. I made the mistake BEFORE I read the site- after being on here, and if I was considering purchasing one and coming on to ask for advice- it would be stupid, and quite clear that I have not read the introduction first. I can't imagine posting a question about buying a bird or wondering what kind to get...on this site- unless I had not read the intro and known what it was about- which, well than I wouldn't have even posted. I would have been in search of a rescue group or a bird in the paper or something. I'd have never got these 2. Although I love them dearly and wouldn't change it now of course.
I am probably rambling, but my point is- I have never ever been attacked here. I humbly admit to "my ignorance" and I have received nothing but help and kind words, seriously nice nice people here with so much knowledge that have accepted me and helped me through some stupid things that I have done and been through and the ?'s I have- and I did things the wrong way (breeder/petstore- a double edge sword)...but after really reading the intro for new members- I knew what I had done was wrong and I felt horrible- that was my first post was about, how terrible I felt. And many people here made me feel better- that it was a mistake and now I have learned. I felt welcomed. I see some of the posts that everyone that has been around for so long here, must get so sad and tired of responding too. No one in particular at all- just lots and lots- it must get frustrating for them.
I would hate to run people off though because this is such a great forumn to help us learn to take care of our babies so that they don't end up in a bad place.
Its a hard postition to be in for all involved I am sure. This is the case with other forums like this though I think- There are some Greyhound Rescue forums that I belong too that also get quite heated- and I (being one of the old-timers for those sites) tend to get a lot more frustrated and do "battle" more-so than I should. But when you hear the same stories and ?'s over and over- and you know its all covered already in the intro and in other posts- it does get frustrating.
I don't know the answer for people that join...except as previously posted making sure that before someone is approved they have read and know what this site is about. I can just say for that new people (as I am) to just realize the reason WHY everyone gets upset- read the stories in the intro and read through posts and understand why and don't get defensive....just be here to learn. There are other sites out there that have info I am sure, that don't so advidly disagree with breeding. I personally would stick to this one because I totally get it....but I wouldn't want to stir people up when they are so dedicated to this cause. I just wouldn't- and I wouldn't have applied to be a member unless I agreed with every single thing that I read.
Anyway- no matter what this is by far the most educating forum I could ever imagine for me and my babies. And I have felt nothing but kindness and people that are 100% dedicated to this cause and I just totally respect that.

#131494 - 11/27/05 05:23 AM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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3toos Offline
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Vancouver Island
Just a quick thought, from someone who has been kicking around here since it began.

Why not have a sort of graduated posting level, one where you would not be able to post until you had read through, and checked off at least a few of the main ideas that this board stands for.

Similar to the End User Licensing Agreement (EULA) forms that appear on any new software, where as you have to at least scroll through them to get to the bottom and check off the box BEFORE you can install the software, or in this case, make you first post.

Just don't make it as long and complicated as a EULA, just the key points, and a check box at the bottom.

At least then, you would have some idea that that perhaps they would at least HAVE to read some of the key ideas that this message board holds.

Not saying it is perfect, but perhaps worth considering. We want to have more people join, enjoy and enrich this online community, but having that same posting again and again adds nothing to the knowledge base, and is not good for the sanity of the moderators.

Pete


Some days it's chaos around here!
and I would not have it any other way.
#131495 - 12/15/05 09:46 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Alger Offline
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Jerry, I'm a new member, but feel you should understand how I came upon your site. I was looking for specific information on swollen parrot cloacas. My own parrot health book covered cloacal prolapse, but in spite of having seen 2 vets, in addition to reading my parrot health book, I thought I needed more information. I used my search engine, which is Dogpile.com, and typed in something like parrot cloaca + swollen. I can't quite remember what I entered. This took me directly to the Message Board on that topic (link)--which I must say, was a GODSEND! I found other people talking about it. I loved your site immediately, but did not stray from the Message Board. It was not until perhaps 8-10 or so days later that I took myself into the Home page. If this happened with me, I suspect this also happens with other members, some of which may have never found your Home page. I am in complete agreement with you. I praise God that my U2 couple, Coco and Karma, no longer produce eggs (that I see)--although they mate. The last one I saw, in maybe 2000, a short time after we moved into this home, appeared to be pitched out of the nest box. It was the first time I had seen this and the last as well. As far as I was concerned, this was terrific. Who the HECK needs more cockatoos. The last one that hatched for me was in 1999, and I gifted her (free) to my best friend, who gave her back to me because she had already purchased a baby cockatoo...who is now a fabulous pet to her. My previous 2 U2's that hatched, I handfed and kept for mysel. I love these creatures with more than all of my heart. Alger (Gergie) and Joy. I have an intense love for these birds, now 8,7 & 6 (AJ) years old. My birds are my life. I think I have 18 or 19 birds total; some are Bourkes, budgies, lovebirds, cockatiels, a Moustache parakeet, and Princess of Wales, plus my indoor CAG. If I ever, and I hope I DO NOT get another baby U2 from mom and dad--(which is doubtful)--I will give the bird to somebody I know will love and cherish it--after I handfeed and wean it. I hope it does not happen. I have read that when you continue to remove chicks from the nest, so dad won't kill them, that eventually many cockatoos do not want to raise young any longer. They begin to lose their instinct for it. I think this happened with me. I hope. My mom and dad U2's are in an outdoor aviary and happy. Mom is no longer tame, but that is ok. I still love her with all of my heart. To end, I think many of us arrive at MyToos under indirect circumstances, which may be the nature of search engines, or whatever. I don't want you to think that because I learned how to handfeed my babies, that I was or am a breeder. I'm only a cockatoo-loving human. What we can learn from these absolutely wonderful and frustrating...yes, they are....creatures. They are NOT for many of us humans. I agree, agree, agree...with you. I often sob at the thought of when I am gone...and they love so intensely. It is so sad, but they are the greatest happiness in my life. I am married and could not have children, so it works for me. I am a 58-year-old. My husband was "given" our Coco because he thought it was a cockatiel...free...how do you like that? I was terrified of her, never wanted a large bird, and look at me now. In 1993 I got her a husband because she kept "panting" at me every time I got close to her...she was wild-caught. I thought it was wrong that she was in love with me, and thought she should have one of her own kind. Hopefully, AJ was the last of the chicks--and she's a happy 6-year-old. Thank you for your interesting and wonderful website. I sure don't want ANYMORE U2's falling in love with me; look what happened!

#131496 - 12/16/05 12:48 AM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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gottahaveart2 Offline
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Maryland
Well, I would like to Thank this Forum for being here, because I do need your experience. I "BOUGHT" a U2, to save it from a filthy, abusive home, early in October. Paid 750 hard earned bucks, to get him away from that home. I didn't know anything about birds other then the wild ones, outside my Kitchen window, that ate me out of house and home. But I couldn't leave this bird in this enviroment. I was told by the scum-buckle seller that He was a she and that she was 2 1/2 years old. Well, now I have a 20+ captured bird that is having a hard time adjusting to his 3rd home in 2 months. He has prolapsed, hates my cooking and loves my husband but puts up with me. Everyday he has a clean cage, new toys rotated, newly cooked food, gets cuddled and I shower him and clean up his poopy butt and push his prolapse in... Then tonight, for the first time since I got Harley, he played with me for 10 minutes on the floor of his cage with a used toilet paper roll. We were both laughing. I have read every posting to this site since I joined and I am in awl and frightened...But Dr Spock also scared me when I had my son 24 years ago and I didn't give up on my Son.. I think you all are a wonder resource for people who love Mytoos. There will always be people looking to make a buck, can we stop the??? No, but could this site make people aware of the dedication involed in owning a Mytoo?? YES I'm glad Harley isn't a young bird..he has history, and you all have taught me how to love him, feed him and keep him happy. And for that I am Thankful. So let bad thoughts and feeling rise or fly above our own self centered feelings and let's just marvel in this wonderful creation that God made and Man has altered. Merry Mytoo Christmas to all and too all a good FLIGHT.

#131497 - 12/16/05 01:51 AM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Denise, Oliver, & Quincy Offline
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Cleveland, OHio
I'm also new here.. but not an amatuer too mom. I've rescued and fostered many toos in the past few yrs. I discovered this site when I was looking to find a way to switch my rescued female utoo to something besides seed. She had been neglected beyond belief. She was kept in a damp basement where the 2 owners smoked heavily around her. When I went and got her she was sneezing constantly. I immediatly took her to the vet to make sure was wasn't ill or in any kind of distress. The vet assured me she was fine did blood work, xrays. You know the routine. He told me that she was malnourished (probably from an all seed diet)and I proceeded to try to switch her to pellets. Well anyway.. I've learned more on this website than I ever did from any other source. More about nutrition. Although I love my vet to pieces, he's the best avian vet in my area, he pushed the pellets. probably because he sells them. But she never did eat real food for me, or the pellets for that matter. She finally died in april from a heart attack. Vet said i did everything I could have to help her, but she had been so neglected for so long that she was pretty much beyond help. At least she was a happy playful companion the short time i had her with me. I've learned so much just from the website and now i have the forum to vent, bounce ideas off of, and just generally brag about my life with my flock. I hope that no one ever feels intimidated by this website.

#131498 - 12/16/05 01:31 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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ILuvU2 Offline
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Indiana
I know a lot of people find this board when they are looking for information regarding a Too they already own, or just got or are thinking of getting. Best thing about this site is it teaches people who already made the mistake of buying from a breeder why their choice wasn't a good one so they can "spread the word" too about breeders.
And for those who are thinking about getting a Too might just go about it the right way through a rescue or forget about it all together after reading more about them.
I know I was glad to find this board & site even though I had already made the mistake & bought my baby from a breeder. I spread the word about breeders & pet shops when ever the topic comes up now.
So I would say let people join to learn smile

#131499 - 12/16/05 04:05 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Magenta Offline
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Magenta  Offline
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Jacksonville, Florida
Whoa, no time to read all the comments on this thread, but I can see that some people are not reading very carefully and just assuming that new members were being attacked. All that was asked was that any new members be made to read the website before they start posting. If they do not believe as we do, but still want to get information, we are here to help, just as long as they don't start talking about how great breeders are or anything like that. All members should respect what this board is about, even if you don't agree. I think as soon as someone starts defending breeding that has been a member here for a while, well, perhaps they should be banned.

ANYWAY, my 2 cents is something I brought up in a thread that never got replied to. I look at the top of the message board and the name and the picture make me think that this site is a place to talk about cockatoos in general, not a board with a purpose or a mission. I suggested that maybe Jerry use the same banner he uses to promote the website on the main page. If someone sees a crying or plucked too at the top, they might then wonder about what the board is all about. It no longer looks like a place that you just chat about your bird, it looks like a place that has a specific reason for existing.

#131500 - 12/16/05 09:14 PM Re: Jerry Please consider  
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Alger Offline
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Hi, Magenta. I'm one of the new members who recently posted on this thread. I only scanned a few of the relies prior my own Reply on this thread. Some could have been hostile, but I did not see them. I do think you are correct, though. When Dogpile.com (my search engine) directed me to this website, I thought it was only a general cockatoo healthcare/chat link. I do agree with you that it is not possible to understand the website's mission when you arrive (land) at the Message Board seeking specific and unrelated information. I was a little paranoid that somebody would think I was promoting breeding...after I discovered first the Homepage, and then yesterday, this thread. That is why I posted yesterday. (It does seem that a lot of the new members know nothing about toos?) I do think it's a great website. I don't know, but imagine the members who are offended by the mission, once they discover it, would just abandon the website altogether? I'm not for breeding 2's anyway, and all for rescue. I have no problem whatsoever with the mission. I just was not aware of the mission when I signed on as a member.

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