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#126910 - 12/30/04 03:12 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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LindaK Offline
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Canada
Exposure to Turtles involves Salmonella and E-Coli. It is prohibited to sell turtles under 4" carpace length. This is what I found when I did a search. The Ontario SPCA is stationed in Newmarket and I got in touch with them once a few years ago and they acted on the matter. In that case the bird was in too small a cage and that had to be changed. A bird has to be able to stretch both wings at the same time while in the cage. Even tho that is too small IMHO.
As I don`t know where this store is located, I can`t do anything specific from my end.
Linda K

#126911 - 12/30/04 03:44 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Hi Brody...I don't think that this little man is receptive to persuasion as far as improving conditions for his birds. I think he caters to an exclusive type of clientele & I don't think animal rights are a priority. I"ve no doubt that he's in violation of some bylaw that the powers that be have chosen to ignore. That is why I'm appealing to everyone to bombard public health with complaints...I've been handing out their phone number to everyone I can at my workplace...I've asked animal lovers to call the SPCA & I've been cultivating alarm to the rest that will listen...which is a pretty captive audience after working the front lines during the SARS outbreak so I'm really playing up the "Avian Flu " risks....quite appropriate as I'm the roving flu shot nurse at the moment, next week I'm doing "fit testing" of N95 masks on hospital personnel."Hot Zone" is coming in to get us started, so I pray that someone there will have some ideas. As I've said before health concerns carry more clout than animal welfare...that's why I implore any residents of Mississauga to call & complain. If I did live in that city I would write my MP & complain about Blah,blah,blah, the rhetoric about I'm a tax payer & all the revenue that's been put into flu clinics, SARS etc.& my children are exposed to all these nasty bird germs etc. I will call Agriculture Canada next week to make an inquiry re; quarantine/importation etc. I'm quite preoccupied right now..kids out of school...but I really plan to take more affirmative action next week...I'm going to contact Animal Alliance, AVA etc. This whole thing is just gnawing away at me...Jeannie's second opinion has substantiated my concerns, we've been emailing each other & she has been really supportive & a great motivation...unfortunately she lives a couple hundred km. away.I was thinking it would great to organize a coalition of sorts to deal with these situations. If not for the advice of this forum, I would not have been so inspired to follow through on this...thanks so much to those that have responded.

#126912 - 12/30/04 03:53 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Hi Linda...the store is located at 888 Dundas Ave. West in the Mississauga Chinese Center & is called Sunny Flower & Plants. I did discuss the risk of salmonellosis with Public Health...I did quote names of an Infection Control Practicioner with whom I discussed this. I believe this is why the turtles are now covered.

#126913 - 12/30/04 04:24 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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Liisa B Offline
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All,

Many of us are working on this problem.

Checking out all sorts of different angles.

I do not believe this is a problem that will be solved overnight.

But... No one is giving up.

Liisa

#126914 - 12/30/04 07:03 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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Graybird Offline
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Boston
Holed it.
Did you say that it is not a licensed pet shop. Well in Boston you can not sell animal's as in a Pet shop with out a licens. I bet it is no different were you are.
Is he selling the animal's or just keeping them there for him self. I dout that he is not selling them so you could try to get him on selling with out a licenes.

#126915 - 12/30/04 11:51 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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BarbH Offline
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Two Rivers AK
Hey all,

This is such a sad, repetive story. I work for Animal Control in AK and hear these stories sooooo often. I have my naked boy on the back of my chair right now...long story, happy ending, but he's still naked.

Worse yet, it takes a heckuva effort from citisens to get any kind of care and keep citation issued, let alone a cruelty charge.

Persistence PAYS...even though we shouldn't have to go to such great lengths. Log all of your efforts! Every phone call, every visit to both the shop and your local law enforcement agency, take some photos! Hold their feet to the fire! Is there some sort of "animal control commission", a citisens group? These folks usually have more influence than those of us actually employed at the shelter.

I am the bane of my bosses esistance (parrot at that letter off my keyboard!)'cause I file complaints like clockwork!

Good luck,

We're rooting for you...

Emme the Grey, Popcorn the Lesser Sulphur, Sunshine the Conure, Pretty Girl the Amason and "he wo would remove my eyes if I don't pay attention"...his bad a$$ self, Henri the Amason.

BarbH

#126916 - 12/31/04 03:25 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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LindaK Offline
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Hi MJA: Thank you for the info. At least now I am able to put some people on this matter. Much appreciated.
LindaK

#126917 - 01/13/05 10:56 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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I hope that no one takes this the wrong way, but I'd really appreciate an update regarding specifics of individual interventions in resolving this problem...for example...I am aware that a member here was kind enough to "donate" some toys to the parrots, & the owner of Pet Mart near by told me that he'd discussed this with Liisa B. At this point I'm reluctant to enter the store as I don't know what sort of a reception I will get from the owner ...I realize that I am an outsider to this board & that I'm not really privy to the forum but I think that a cohesive effort would prevail in resolving this problem & helping these birds...it's not a matter of ego, but rather of credibility. I would like to avoid redundancy or inaccuracies in my continued efforts ...I hope I have not offended anyone by this request...it certainly is not my intent, it's just that, although I'm not a bonafide Mytoos member, I too am " for the birds"

#126918 - 01/13/05 11:17 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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I've re-read my post...I do sound very snotty, indeed....when I was posting originally, I edited time & again in an effort to improve that holier-than-thou flavor...my 14 year old breathing down my neck ' cause I'm monopolizing the computer, Finally decided to post AS IS...So once again I just want to clarify that this was posted sans malice....PETA did finally follow-up...I was just speaking to a rep & I do need to follow up with additional info...

#126919 - 01/14/05 06:02 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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Liisa B Offline
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MJA,
Did I miss something? Why on earth would anyone be offended by your post? confused
You saw a situation that needs to be addressed & local members are trying to help these birds.
LOL This includes you! smile
I hate to say it but I have seen much worse. They have food *within the letter of the law, shelter, crowded but 'adequate' & water. I do not think these birds are going anywhere without a ransom on their heads though. Meanwhile we continue to educate this shop owner & improve the lives of these birds. After all ... sick birds do not sell! Hopefully once shop owner realizes that parrots are not the quick easy buck he thought, he just might stop carrying them. Hopefully.

Liisa

#126920 - 01/14/05 07:23 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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King Les Offline
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How receptive is the owner to being 'educated'?
How was his improper treatment of the birds presented to him? What was his reaction? How often is he getting visits from the concerned people involved?

#126921 - 01/14/05 03:47 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Hi Liisa B & Les...thanks for your input. I just don't want to step on any toes!however, specfically I was looking for info for documentation purposes, specific interventions & dates & ongoing survellience... I feel very strongly that whatever improvements may have been instituted would largely be due to appease Peel Public Health. I think that the owner is stupid like a fox...based on his responses during the role playing situation by Jeannie & myself I think he is quite knowledgable about the needs of these birds...although he may seem receptive to your efforts to educate...I have strong doubts that he will continue to maintain these higher standards once the heat is off...I think that from this experience he is garnering the ammunition required to pass inspections with flying colours...Has anyone spoken with Mississauga Animal Control?...I was told by a rep. that there have been numerous, ongoig complaints about this store...As well it is not licensed as a pet store...In the interest of political correctness,I think that the community has turned a blind eye to this situation.

#126922 - 01/14/05 06:45 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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brody Offline
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If he is behaving better due to heat I guess we'd better keep the heat on him eh? I, like many other members, am an hour away (I know many are more)so am not dropping in nearly as often as I'd like. I have no idea what your reception will be all I can say is I was treated politely and respectfully but I was also polite and as positive as I could be.

Use whatever approach works best for you- I think the best bet is for him not to know how many people are working together but to feel like he's being watched/supported by many folks.

I'm intending on getting back out there this weekend

He has been reported to animal control but I am not sure what follow up there was- I will look into that and let you know

gosh I wish PM were possible

#126923 - 01/14/05 08:13 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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Lrex Offline
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I have been following this post and really wish I were closer and could help. One thing I read which worries me here is "... so I'm really playing up the "Avian Flu " risks...." We here in B.C. are very, very sensitive about that being bantered around. Many people in the Fraser Valley area worried themselves absolutely sick that someone was going to seize and destroy their parrots in a panic to contain the avian flu outbreak. I am not trying to be rude and hopefully, given that Ontario residents were certainly no privy to the panic and the worry, I would hope that one would not even JOKE about suggesting that those birds would be carrying avian flu much less spreading it to people's children. In fact there is evidence available that parrots are not even susceptible to the disease itself. In B.C. it was confined to poultry. This could seriously come back to bite you on the A**. Don't do it. Call it paranoia but I don't even want most people to know that I have birds just in case this sort of innuendo arises in our area.

Work to change the laws in your Province. Picket the guy. Send letters to the editor. Harrass City Hall about him not having a license to sell birds. Or last but not least, fund raise and ransom those birds out of there. Just be careful that you don't raise the risk threshold for yourself and other parrot lovers in the area.

#126924 - 01/15/05 05:48 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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Jeannie4 Offline
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Update on these birds:

I got two letters today from two different people from the SPCA. One was the initial contact I had and the second one was the investigating officer.

I have seen worse too; but I thought that these particular birds looked sick. Obviously the SPCA people did too because they ordered the owner to take "several" of the birds to a vet. As far as they knew the birds had already been to the vet and they are waiting on a written report.

In my original letter I gave them the name of 2 avian vets (one is the top man in Canada). So I hope they passed on these names to the shop owner.

On the internet we read a lot about the SPCA going in and letting it go because the birds have food and water. This time was different. They also alluded to the fact that the owner would have to follow up on the vet's suggestions.

The birds may not be in the best of situations but I am pleased. Thank-you MJA and everyone else who cared enough to make a difference.
Jeannie

#126925 - 01/15/05 06:57 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Toronto
Also PETA emailed advising that they have spoken with OSPCA today & have reiterated the request for additional info. My apologies to those offended by my Avian Flu alarm tactics...no harm was intended...We in Ontario also take this threat very seriously...I personally worked the "front lines" during the SARS outbreak...Even now in the T.O. ER's there is ongoing survellience & each & every patient is screened carefully for Avian Flu, SARS & other assoc. threats...in addition travel to certain high risk countries is documented...Although I "belong" to the ER, I have been on loan to our Occupational Health Dept. administering flu vacccinations to hospital staff across 3 different sites I guess I'm a little preoccupied with bird & other flu...I also have a background as an Animal Health Technologist & have a fairly extensive history in "rescues" of other species,though admittedly I know little about parrots ...Sadly I learned a long time ago that animal welfare is not much of a priority to most officials...it's really a matter of politics...respiratory & infection control issues are HUGE...I felt that my outrage would carry more clout from this angle. This decision was not made lightly...Jeannie & I did discuss potentials for back-fire..ie; that the birds would be seized & euthanised...we did have a back up plan in that event as well.I realize Lrex that your concern is on a grander scale ...I have 3 birds of my own & would go to the ends of the earth to protect them...so I pray that there will not be any negative fallout from my actions. Regardless of OSPCA & PETA intervention I think that this is far from over...I think this man is likely to reoffend & I'm sure there are many similar operations in various locations...It was truly a blessing for me to have met Jeannie through this board...her persistence, support & encouragement has been integral in improving conditions for these birds...she is one remarkable woman!!!

#126926 - 01/15/05 07:52 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Toronto
Brody...to answer your question regarding Mississauga Animal Control...In response to my original complaint,I was told "We've had a lot of complaints about that place", "I know exactly where you're talking about"."The store isn't licensed as a pet store so there's nothing we can do"...I asked then if I were to purchase a pet & provide a reciept would this help...I was told to call the OSPCA, which I did & did not recieve a reply to either email or voice messages...This is what motivated me to contact Peel Public Health. This complaint was taken seriously. I also passed the phone # out to the many Mississauga residents at my workplace...which is in Toronto but many commute from Mississauga & were willing to call the animal control to make a formal complaint.

#126927 - 01/16/05 03:53 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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brody Offline
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cheers

brody

#126928 - 01/16/05 09:33 AM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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MJA Offline
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Toronto
Jeez Brody...I've obviously deeply offended you.I'm just wondering why you didn't share this information sooner...This has been eating me up,Jeannie & I've expended an incredible amount of energy & time making phone calls, sending emails & letters...We could have relaxed a little knowing that you've got everything under control! Boy I sure wish that I could remember the name of the individual that I spoke with at the animal control... she was obviously misinformed or plain lazy. Anyway thank you so much for youur efforts. What do you think I should do now about PETA?...they are planning to follow up with me at the start of next week ...I'm not sure if you saw my post requesting updates of interventions...

#126929 - 01/16/05 06:38 PM Re: Parrots in deplorable condition  
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brody Offline
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You haven't offended me at all smile my "cheers" or lack thereof is a dead give away - ask anybody!
I am a fairly private person and especially with investigative work do NOT post on a public board -partly the result of court cases I have been involved with I guess- partly because there are lots of folks on the net who aren't what they seem.

I have been keeping Jeannie and Liisa apprised of what I have been doing and presumed you were also in the loop. As to PETA- do whatever you think is best- I don't know what the conditions in the store are now - nor can I make promises to get there any specific day. If had been in contact with them I'd encourage them to keep the heat up- maybe- I guess we'd need a crystal ball to actually know what is best for the birds.

I'm hoping between bylaw, spca and individual concern things are improving but I hold little long term hope....call me cynical, jaded, bitter, experienced, what ever you will- at least I still try to make a difference for the animals

please don't take my quietness as condemnation- I'm delighted there are caring people in my larger community keeping an eye open for wrong doing

thanks

cheers

brody

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