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#122958 - 09/09/03 08:48 AM Very sick RB2  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35
Karen Kilian Offline
Member
Karen Kilian  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35
South Africa
Dear dr.Mike.My RB2 started looking sick on Friday,she was less active and quiet and not eating.Friday afternoon we took her to the vet and he gave her antibiotic injection saying that she probably have "some kind of infection"When we got back home she fell off her perch,couldn't sit up straight and seemed very disorientised.We phoned the vet and he said we must bring her in again.Then he said she has a calcium deficiency because the falling is a sign of calcium deficiency.He then gave her a calcium shot.Friday night she was very sick at some stage lying on the bottom of the cage.We thought we lost her,she was very weak,turning around and around ,disorientated and unable to walk.She vomited a few times and sneezed a lot.Then suddenly she walked around and seemed miraculously better.Friday night she sat in her cage without falling off and Saturday she seemed much better walking around a bit and eating a little but at least eating something.Sunday morning she looked sick again and didn't want to eat at all.She keeps on shaking her head as if something is irritating her and her beak is open all the time as if she is out of breath.We took her to another vet then and he gave her another antibiotics shot and some medicine for crop infection in by mouth.(She has antibiotics Sat morning from the 1st vet)We took her home but she looked sick and keeps on shaking her head.Monday morning I took her to the vet again and he decided to keep her there to forcefeed her because she wont eat.We went to see her yesterday afternoon and the vet said she has got a respiratory infection.She ate a little on her own he said.She is getting antibiotics every day and he said she probably needs to stay there until Wednesday.My question is why do the vets speculate and no one can tell us for certain what is wrong with her? She is one year and we,ve had her since 14 weeks.We got a 3 year old Ducorp's cockatoo 3 weeks ago,she is a screamer and we went through a very stressfull period since we got the D2.Could this have contributed to the RB2 getting sick because of the prescence of a new bird all of a sudden?Sorry for all the questions but I desperately need your professional opinion.Thank you so much.

#122959 - 09/09/03 12:09 PM Re: Very sick RB2  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 474
Dr. Mike Offline
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Dr. Mike  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 474
New Jersey
Hi Karen
The symptoms you describe are rather non-specific. There are a number of possible problems that could cause them. Calcium deficiency is not likely to cause the disorientation and falling off the perch in an adult unless there has been on-going chronic, debilitsting disease present.

How was the "respiratory infection" diagnosed? By culture of a bacteria or fungus? By symptoms alone? The respiratory component may be secondary to another primary problem, so antibiotics are appropriate for now, but the other symptoms are not fitting with a bacterial infection.

Vets may speculate if there are no diagnostics available, like bloodwork or x-rays. While waiting for results of bloodwork, cultures, or other tests, it is appropriate to develop a "differential diagnosis", a list of possibilities, and treat for the most likely until results of tests confirm the diagnosis or suggest another one.

If there has been stress from the addition of the D2, possible introduction of infectious disease by the D2, and/or exposure to the dust and other airborne toxins and/or irritants from a recent renovation (for example), there are several possibilities.

1. The D2 may have been carrying an infectious disease, like psittacosis. This needs to be ruled out with testing (both of the D2 and the RB2).

2. The RB2 may have been hiding a low-grade chronic disease that has been forced to the surface by the stress.

3. The dust of the renovations may contain heavy metals or other toxins.

The symptoms you describe are very compatible with heavy metal toxicity. Other possibilities that could produce the symptoms are liver failure, psittacosis, infection of the central nervous system, egg binding, egg peritonitis, aspergillosis, toxins (inhaled or ingested), and PDD. A respiratory infection is not likely to produce the symptoms you describe unless the infection has become systemic and the bird is septic, with bacteria circulating in the blood and affecting liver and/or central nervous system.

I highly recommend that the bird be x-rayed immediately. A bacterial and fungal culture should be done. Bloodwork, including a CBC, chemistry panel, protein electrophoresis, lead, zinc, aspergillus titer, and bile acids should be done. If the vet just wants to keep treating based on speculation and won't (or can't) run these diagnostic tests, then you need to find one that will (or can). Fast.

If you need help in locating a vet that can do these things, let me know by PM'ing me with your location and zip code and I will try to find someone to help.

Good Luck
Dr. Mike shocked

#122960 - 09/19/03 09:07 AM Re: Very sick RB2  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35
Karen Kilian Offline
Member
Karen Kilian  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35
South Africa
Dear dr.Mike,

Pirdie came home last week Friday,still sick and without much hope.The vet decided to send her home after she has been in a incubator for 5 days.She lost a lot of weight but are getting better slowly but surely.
Now since Wednesday her feet started "jumping"as if a nerveous condition is causing it.The vet diagnosed gastrointestinal infection and said that the kidneys were swollen and asa result the nerves to the feet were affected.She was numb in the feet for 3-4 days and off balance.
She started walking around on Sunday and now she is much stronger on her feet.Its just that the feet jump now and we don't know why.

She is much better otherwise and is eating a little on her own.Do you think the feet "thing" is as a result of the kidneys,going back to normal or could there be another cause of this.Will it dissapear or could it be a permanent condition?The vet said it could be inflammation in the feet,and gave her an injection for inflammation.It was a bit better after the injection but this morning she couldnt keep her feet still again.
Your input will be greatly appreciated,Thank you dr.Mike,
Karen.

#122961 - 09/19/03 08:59 PM Re: Very sick RB2  

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Karen, this sounds VERY SERIOUS! please, PLEASE take dr. Mikes advice, (which you asked for). get every test he reccomended done! how would you feel if you wake up tomorrow and your birds feet are not twitching, but stiff!
just MHO,linda

#122962 - 09/22/03 09:28 AM Re: Very sick RB2  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 45
Chel Offline
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Chel  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 45
South Africa
I know that Dr Mike has not replied yet, and I don't want to sound like I am interfering so if need be moderators please delete if you feel it is necessary.
I'm writing as I have been in contact with Karen (and Dr Mike) since Pirdie got sick. Linda2&kuku, you are correct in saying that this is very very serious. Karen has done everything that Dr Mike has suggested she put through all his recommendations to the vet. I cannot be correct in saying what blood work they have done (if any) but I know that the vet's said they have given Pirdie the correct antibiotics for her illness. Karen has taken day's off work to care for her. In the vet's opinion he has done everything possible to help Pirdie.

I really wish that we had someone like Dr Mike in our country but we can only take his recommendations to our vet's and hope they listein. I'm not a expert at all, just a friend of Karen's so please forgive me if I sound like I am being nasty I just feel that I need to say that she has listeined to Dr Mike and she and her vet are trying their best to save Pirdie.
For all the medical details Karen would have to say what has been done. I am sorry if I am out of line here, this is just my 2 cents.


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