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#102082 - 10/22/03 06:55 PM Bird Shop  
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What is a good bird shop? What do you look for in a bird shop? What do you not want to see? How far would you be willing to drive to the perfect bird shop? What items should be carried? What type of educational program(s) should there be? What organizations (bird clubs, etc) should be promoted or not promoted? What type of advertising would draw you into a bird shop? What would turn you off a bird shop? Would you want contact info of avian vets?

Please give me your input and be candid without being rude.

Lei

#102083 - 10/22/03 07:08 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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What is a good bird shop?
A good bird shop will not sell unweaned babies OR any babies/birds unless the person buying agrees to take classes, which a GOOD bird store would provide as part of their services. A good bird shop would also have an avian vet available for consultations and checkups.

What do you look for in a bird shop?
Knowledgeable employees, a clean store, NO babies or ANY birds being left out to be handled or poked at by customers. Any handling of birds would be employee supervised.

What do you not want to see?
UNWEANED babies being sold.
Large parrots being sold.
Customers being allowed to pick up and handle the birds and children being unsupervised and allowed to do the same, that drives me NUTS!!!

How far would you be willing to drive to the perfect bird shop?
There is no such thing, I would find something wrong..LOL But I do visit a bird store about 45 minutes away to buy treats, food occassionally because they are as good as a bird store gets.

What items should be carried? What type of educational program(s) should there be? What organizations (bird clubs, etc) should be promoted or not promoted?
Toys, books, food, small birds ONLY and classes to teach potential owners how to take care of those birds would be a requirement before anyone could buy a bird.

What type of advertising would draw you into a bird shop? What would turn you off a bird shop? Would you want contact info of avian vets?
Just look at any Petco or PetSmart, etc advertisements..and THOSE are the ones that I would avoid. LYING to the public about parrots is the biggest turn off to me, just to make a sale.

Please give me your input and be candid without being rude.

I could have gone into more detail but this has been discussed many times here at mytoos and I just covered your basic questions with some very basic answers.
I know there are a few good pet stores out there but the big chains and majority of those in business are out to make a buck and dont care how much they have to lie to do so. So my expectations in a "good" bird shop are high and I have never seen ANY of them that can live up to what most of us here would like to see.

Lei

#102084 - 10/23/03 12:23 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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Mona,

What an excellent reply! Have you seen a pet store that actually fits your statement? Have you seen one that provides classes? I really like this site. wink

Joe

#102085 - 10/23/03 05:46 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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Thanks Joe, no I haven't seen any store give classes as part of a requirement for buying a bird, I have seen a couple that allow the purchasers of baby bird still being weaned to come in and socialize their babies before they're ready to take home. I would love to run a bird SUPPLY store and maybe sell tiels, budgies and finches, but the ONLY way a customer could buy one would be if they take a required class or classes. My main focus would be on providing supplies and conducting classes for anyone that would like to learn more about parrots, hopefully bringing in people that have already purchased a bird from somewhere else and don't have a CLUE about how to take care of them.

#102086 - 10/23/03 06:39 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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The best bird shop, to me, is not a shop at all, but a rescue.

The birds they have are "throw aways" and ones that need homes and help. People who want a bird must fill out adoption forms and have to sign agreements to care and provide for the bird they get.

The rescue also sells supplies and all types of bird "stuff". The owner and workers are not paid and it's non-profit and all the proceeds go toward the benefit of the birds, not to line the pockets of bird brokers.

If a "bad bird" comes in, they work with the bird to make it adoptable and will only allow experienced people to adopt large birds. They make sure the bird and people "fit" and if they don't, they will work hard for the benefit of the bird and the owner. They are available to answer your questions whenever you need them.

People who work at rescues are exceptional people and I think they should be the one's to get my business!!!! Just my opinion. eek Cynthia

#102087 - 10/23/03 06:48 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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I agree Cynthia and thats a wonderful idea. I would LOVE to see that happen and be a part of such a place. I have always wanted to open a bird supply store and not sell ANY big birds, but I honestly dont see anything wrong with selling the little guys, like budgies, tiels and finches. They, unlike the big parrots, have been domesticated long enough to make excellent pets and by selling ONLY those birds, hopefully encourage anyone that is DEAD SET on having a parrot, to only buy the smaller birds, who are less likely to end up in a rescue or be abused, because they are rarely neurotic or screamers, and the average "joe" can be taught (with classes) how to care for them.
But I like your idea better :-)

#102088 - 10/24/03 02:38 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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Well said Cynthia. However, Mona's idea is a good one also. Best of both worlds.

#102089 - 10/24/03 02:53 AM Re: Bird Shop  

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Hi all,

The question that comes to my mind is, what is the meaning behind a "good birdshop"? And, more importantly, whom or what is it "good" for? It's certainly really good for breeders and business owners, but is it good for birds? The way I see it, there is hardly much good about taking the birds out of their natural habitat, breeding them in an unnatural way, caging them, displaying them, and selling to whomever can afford one. So, I go with Cynthia's wonderful idea about rescues. That way we're repairing the damage allready done and not feeding the industry. Even an outwardly "good" birdstore (meaning the ideal store) is still feeding the industry that objectifies and capitalizes on the animals, so even that, I will argue, is not a "good" birdstore, no matter how clean and nice it is. I think the question we should be asking is, "who or what are birdstores good for?" asD
Karen.

#102090 - 10/24/03 04:02 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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I also agree with Cynthia, but also with Mona? I feel that if there is a decent store that fits some of the criteria that Mona suggested, the store would be worth supporting; however, her suggested store is a rare breed. Then, Cynthia's suggestion is the best idea. Unfortunatley, I am not awara of any bird shelters in Palm Beach County. I have found three shelters in Florida, but they are quite a drive for me to purchase supplies, if they even have it! So, I am stuck in the catch 22 situation! There is the option of internet purchases; however, the cost of shipping quickly changes that idea! Does this topic have too much venom in it?

Joe

#102091 - 10/24/03 06:10 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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This is a link to my favorite bird shop.....

**** Joe, I have removed your link because we do NOT advertise ANYONE who sells the big cockatoos.

This website is completely against this practice and a "good" bird store would NEVER in a million years sell the big 'Toos. Your favorite store not only sells Moluccans but also Black Palm Cockatoos. This in my opinion is NOT a good bird store.. no matter how much "good" information they put out on their website. Mytoos is all about stopping the buying and selling of these large birds until we can solve the problems we already have, and the suffering we and the rescues are experiencing. To continue to offer these birds for sale at this point is nothing but plain old fashioned greed. angry

#102092 - 10/24/03 04:40 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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Joe, I also live in Florida and here's an option for you. I purchase my supllies and food from online stores that support rescues weather it is 10% or 100% all rescues need every cent they can get. There are also suppliers that support rescues such as Lafeber.
I pray that someday we will find the right balance, with sites such as this one more people are educated everyday.
I must also say that while the store that you showed us looks really nice, they sell larger birds. I did see that they have a paragraph or 2 about them however in my eyes if your not ready for an M2 don't suggest a U2. Also do they ship? This isn't a perfect world, I don't think it ever will be, but for now we can try to make it better in anyway we can find, even if it is .30 cents to a rescue.

#102093 - 10/26/03 06:39 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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Hi All,
Actually, there are 2 bird shops, that I know of, that DO offer classes for their customers.
Parrot Island in MN. & Kookaburra in TX.

Liisa

#102094 - 10/27/03 01:26 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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Greetings Joe-

I searched google with "bird rescue palm beach county florida" and there were some hits. Maybe you can look and see if any of those places are near to you?

I am very passionate about rescues. I may not have a very loud voice on my own but the mighty dollar speaks volumns. It's my belief that we should only put our money into things that we believe in. I'm not an activest but I quietly, and in my own way, try to sway things.

When I'm at another point in my life, I think I may open a store just like I was talking about. I used to only consider working at something that earned the 'big bucks' but no longer. I am focusing on my kids, ages 16,14 & (whoops...) 3 and also taming my M2 Mikey. I have a full plate right now but within a couple of years, Wisconsin just might have another rescue. I think I might start another topic and get everyone's idea??? HUMMMMMM Thanks for lighting a fire.... Cynthia

#102095 - 10/27/03 02:46 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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The reason I brought this subject up is because I am tired of spending my money at places that don't conduct "bird friendly" business. I am at the point of opening my own "bird friendly" shop that will sell my own toy line that is 100% bird safe with most toys having no metal parts. There would be signs posted about the dangers of Teflon and other household items. There will be education classes and care sheets to take home before the purchases of any small bird. Actually, I am doing this with a friend and she is the one with the birds. NO large birds will be sold!!!!!!!!!!!!! There will be a rescue album with pictures and stories. There will also be a big sign referring people to www.mytoos.com. It will be in the Farmers Market where fresh produce is literally next door and in the shop. I will not be able to stock a large inventory since I am just starting out, but I want to cater to bird people that care as much as I do. Since I know that a good bird shop can't support itself right away (if ever), I am also opening a boutique next to it that will hopefully carry the shop. Our goal is not to be the biggest, but to be the best. My friend often refuses to sell to people, just because of their attitudes.

The only way this has come about is through prayer and the desire to provide education to the public. I understand that many may not agree with me and that some may blast this venture, but I would hope that you can see the potential good this could be as long as our shop stays focused on education and quality products at affordable prices.

Lei

#102096 - 10/27/03 05:13 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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I'm surprised you would allow the selling of any birds. The small ones are gotten rid of just as much as the large; maybe not because of behaviors but because of mess, too much chirping, and trading up to larger. The last time I was in a rescue there were almost as many small birds as large .... right down to tiny finches. As a matter of fact in some ways the large birds are luckier for you do not hear of them being released to brave the elements as much as you do the small ones being "set free". The rest of the store practices sound good.

#102097 - 10/27/03 05:59 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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I disagree that selling small birds is such a terrible thing. I think the smaller birds make wonderful pets and I dont think a boycott on selling ALL birds is realistic anyway. A well run store, with mandatory classes to educate potential customers could be a good thing. Why shouldnt people enjoy owning a cockatiel, budgie or finch?? Of course I would rather see them rescued but many many cities and towns dont have rescues. I would never sell anything other than those small birds and I would also make it my lifes work to educate people WHY they should never buy, but rescue the larger birds. I would only sell to adults, never allowing kids to come in and purchase anything without a parent willing to attend the classes also. You could ask them to sign an aggreement to return the bird to you, if they became unhappy with it. I just think that if the public were more educated about birds, maybe there wouldnt be so many in rescues. These little birds are a huge responsiblity also, classes preparing the owners for that could help stop some of them from ending up in rescues. Classes could also educate people about the stupidity of releasing the small birds to the elements, tell them what will happen to those birds if they just "let them go free". There are ways to make the public aware of the responsiblities of owning a bird, any size and maybe this would be the beginning of a trend to others doing just that, who knows.....

#102098 - 10/27/03 06:06 PM Re: Bird Shop  

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I've been on the quiet side lately due to lack of time. I wanted to speak up on this one though. My question is, why do people feel the need to sell birds at shops? Why can't they just be supply shops? M2mom is right, small birds are still suffering the same as the large birds. It doesn't make a difference if you are selling large or small. In my book, they are all the same. If you are going to have a store and are selling small birds, you are still adding to the problem.

Now, birds are always for sale out there. Check the classifieds. Why not try to help others find homes for their birds instead. I know most people out there ask for money, but those birds also need good homes. Why not extend your services of the store to those looking for homes for their unwanted ones? You can charge them a fee of course, but at least you are not breeding and adding to the problem that already exists. People looking for a bird can come to your store, learn some bird care etc. and maybe find an unwanted match that fits their family? You are still helping, but you are not adding to the population problem. It would also be good for business. Those who find a bird through you, will shop at your store.

In my opinion, there is no need for bird sales at a store. Everyone needs supplies and if you have an array of supplies and can educate at the same time, people will come.

#102099 - 10/27/03 07:00 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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I know a boycott on selling any bird would be impossible that was not my idea. The idea was to just not contribute to the problem of any unwanted birds. Cynthia & Heather had a great idea. Instead of selling why not let it be known that you will take in ANY bird that needs a home. When the bird comes in place said bird into the proper sized cage w/ appropriate food, toys, etc.. Than you can "sell" the bird at your cost. Meaning charge for your cage + mark up, toys + mark up, food + mark up, class time to adopt the bird, etc; let the bird go for "free" (unless you have to pay for a vet check than charge ONLY the cost of the vet check AND provide the paperwork from said check). It would be a wonderful way to help birds in need, make sure they get the right start (w appropriate supplies), not contribute to the on-going problem that EVERY cage bird can experience of being unwanted, and you still make a profit off all the supplies. If there wasn't a problem w/ the small birds needing homes I would say go for it ... but call Mick-A-Boo small bird rescue or any rescue and find out how many little ones need homes .... I think you'd be surprised.

#102100 - 10/27/03 07:23 PM Re: Bird Shop  
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I agree with the idea of taking in unwanted birds and finding them homes, thats a wonderful idea. I just know that in the area I live in, there ARE no rescues anywhere close to me. So if people want a bird they either go to a breeder if they can find one, or go to one of those horrible chain stores. I personally dont think I could ever sell a bird to anyone I didnt know, when I really think about it, which is why I decided not to breed my cockatiels years ago, the thought of parting with the babies was so horrible, I knew I couldnt do it..so my idea of selling small birds to the public is really just hypothetical, but I dont see why it cant be done in a responsible way and educate people at the same time, in areas with no rescues or means to adopt a bird.
And Im well aware of the birds in rescues, I've been in the bird "world" for many many years now, so I wouldnt be surprised.

#102101 - 10/28/03 03:05 AM Re: Bird Shop  
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Good points were made. I would like to say that I have be helping displaced parrots for some time and that will always be the case. I will not sell a displaced bird, but I will adopt out to people that I have been working with. There are several bird shops in the metro that drive me crazy, most have dirty cages, no toys, and limited knowledge. I know the joy I received from my dear little tiel, Louise, and she is still very close to me. I didn't know a thing when I took the plunge and would have loved a shop that gave care classes. Offering the public a place to learn about proper care is important and some may not agree with this venture, but others, such as Mona, can see where, if conducted in the proper way, education and quality products at affordable prices would be nice.

Lei

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