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#42117 - 01/21/04 12:58 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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(((((HUGS))))) to yu and Chloe. I will be think of you and always hoping for the best.

#42118 - 01/21/04 01:54 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Heather, I feel so sorry for your situation, I can't even imagine how heartbreaking this must be for you, especially as you seem such a caring bird-mom.

I'm not sure of what your views are on natural therapies to alleviate stress and tension in pets. I have to say initially that I was not a believer, however having used them over a course of several months I am pleased with the results. My view now is that even if they have no effect, they can't hurt and I think that natural solutions are best where possible.

Here are a couple of links kindly supplied by Athena and Sunny respectively when I asked about natural Bach Flower remedies on here:

Article

National List of Holistic Vets

hang in there, I'm sure it will all get resolved

Best Regards

Dean

#42119 - 01/21/04 02:35 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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This situation is exactly what I've been preaching about for years now. This is also why I have been ridiculed on the internet by those "pro" parrot people who claim that I dont know what the hell I'm talking about. I've seen this first hand (in the BEST of situations) and I've seen and heard thousands of stories exactly like this.

People think "this can never happen to MY bird because I'm such a great owner and provide every single one of my birds needs". I'm here to tell you that no matter how hard you try.. you CANT PROVIDE FOR ALL YOUR BIRDS NEEDS! Some of you have young birds... or wild caughts... or you're just fortunate so far, but never think for a second that Heathers situation is abnormal!

I've said that what Heather has provided is the minimum for these birds (and just how many people do you think can provide anywhere NEAR what Heather has provided?) and that even then... it's NO guarantee that you're bird wont self destruct.

Until we get more people like Heather experiencing the problem first hand, we'll continue to have an uphill battle convincing the world that everything isnt rosey in the world of Cockatoos. Not only isnt it rosey... it's a sad situation that only going to get worse as time goes on. The more people like Heather experience this problem... the better it will be for thousands of future birds. No, not that I'd wish what Heathers going through on ANYONE! But I know her to be an upstanding person and will spend her life as I have done looking for solutions....but more importantly she will spend extra time convincing people that these birds NORMALLY DONT DO WELL IN CAPTIVITY in the long run! THIS is the reason that these birds pluck. It's just that simple.

Good luck Heather.

#42120 - 01/21/04 03:03 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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Jerry, what you pointed out is the main reason why I posted this. I couldn't agree with you more that no matter what we do, no matter how much we provide, this still happens. The bottom line is these birds are meant to be free, to have mates and to procreate. In captivity, nobody can provide all of this.

Nobody wants this to happen to their bird. And I know that I have provided everything I possibly can (within my means, and being realistic here) for mine. But still, this is happening.

I do want others to read Chloe's story and hopefully learn from it. I want others to realize that these behaviors come with the territory. It doesn't matter how large a cage, how many toys, how much you spend on fresh foods, how large your outdoor flight is......you can't change hormones, you can't mold instinct.

I am prepared for whatever happens in Chloe's future. Since this is beginning at the mere age of 3, I have no doubt that it will only worsen as she ages. I will try my best to do everything I can for her, but I understand that she is what she is. A wild animal, born into captivity, with instincts stronger than I could ever know.

#42121 - 01/21/04 04:28 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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im sorry to hear what is happening to your 2 heather. and i to beleave the same thing like us, our toos crave freedom they thrive on it. with my too i try so hard to make comfy and feel liike were a flock. and has freedom but i know it is not enough. and i try to go that extra mile for my freind henry.

#42122 - 01/21/04 06:14 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Quote:
I do know the dangers of zinc and galvanized steel. Honestly though, I'm not very concerned. Believe me, I've done my reading on it etc. My birds don't chew it per se and the amount of climbing by beaking I don't think is going to hurt them.
Heather, has Cloe been tested for zinc?
This galvanized wire really worries me and it only takes a very very small amount to become a problem... confused

#42123 - 01/21/04 06:57 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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Heather I am so sorry this is happening to you and Chloe. I will keep you in my thoughts.

#42124 - 01/21/04 09:44 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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Hi Ron, I did do a zinc test in fall as it is the end of our outdoor aviary season. Everything did come out fine. However, I do wonder if it may not have shown up yet? I don't know. I've been using these aviaries for a couple years now, I would think that if it was zinc, it would have shown up in her last testing. confused

I wonder if I should get another test done, just in case. I'll try anything.

#42125 - 01/22/04 12:04 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Not knowing the answer, I can only assume that a very small particle (say lodged in the gizzard) would slowly disolve its way into the blood system and get worse with time, but I really just don't know.

Here's a link that tells how zinc can leach its way into drinking water and probably onto toys, branches, perches or anything else in the aviary that gets wet. Personally, I would re-test just for the sake of knowing for sure.

http://www.rescueme.org/zincand.htm

#42126 - 01/22/04 02:38 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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Thanks Ron for the link. I'm now paranoid and am making an appointment for another testing just to be sure. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks again everyone. laugh

#42127 - 01/22/04 03:41 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Heather:

Another thing I noticed is that you live in New Hampshire, right and it's pretty cold there too. I have a warm mist humidifier in the room where Sally and Zazu sleep and another one going in the dining room where their cages are. Now I only live in a one bedroom apartment and the air is so dry that it's been blowing out a gallon and 1/2 of water every day.

And you know how itchy dry skin is. So I'm thinking the humidifiers that are installed on furnaces really aren't enough. I turn the humidifier on in the morning and it is empty when I get home. Then I fill it again. So it's worth a shot.

And also Zazu the goffin I bought from the university student was zinc toxic when I got her. She didn't pluck either even though the levels were not really high but she still had to go through chelation. 7 days on, 7 off, 7 on. That was 3 years ago.

Bev, Zazu and Sally Ann


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#42128 - 01/25/04 04:14 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Dear Heather,
I have had a few birds in that have plucked their feathers, and after a lot time spent trying all kinds of things I found two products that have worked for my birds. some time ago I told how my poor Galah came to me with his legs and feet broken his wings cut to the skin and not only had he bitten a large hole in his chest he had plucked out most of his feathers.He was infact too sick for vet treatment which would have meant many hours drive(there is no vet anywhere near me that treats birds)and with his total fear of humans, getting to the vet to try to treat him would have scared him to death, he was in fact very close to that already.So for the first month all I could do was keep him alive.Once his bones started to mend I then had to find a way to treat the hole in his chest and stop further damage. I started him on a product called Guardian Angel which is for sick or stressed birds.It is an Immune support, probiotics, vitamins, minerals.and Long-term energy powder that is placed in water or on food. I also needed a treatment for the open wound but I could not touch my little Galah so I looked around for something to spray on him, (Galahs love a bath) I came up with "Colloidal Silver" which is a Natural Antibiotic, and I mixed this with 50% water and sprayed him ever other day.Within a few weeks the wound on his chest had gone and feathers were coming back, he has now even grown wing feathers which I never thought he would. It has taken over a year but I now have a fully feathered Galah who stopped plucking within weeks of the treatment, He still gets it every week.
I then got in an "avery" kept ringneck with no feathers at all, he had been totally plucked for so long I was sure no feathers would ever grow again.I put him on the same treatment, he was so stressed poor thing.But He very quickly started to enjoy his cage and toys and after eighteen months he started to grow feathers, sadly he has a stroke and died.but at least he had his dignty back.
I do not say this will work in every case but I have since used it on other birds and it has worked on them, it is completely safe and can be brought from the birdcare company in the USA and Canada.
So Heather maybe you will try this, I promise it will not harm your baby in any way,and if you do find it works then you can let other people know.
All my love and best wishes go to you and your baby for a fast recovery.

#42129 - 02/06/04 03:56 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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I just wanted to update you all that Chloe's tests all came back. I decided to do another full CBC as well as a full line-up of cultures and zinc test. Her CBC came back great, her zinc test is free and clear, but the cultures showed that Chloe has E-coli. I know...YUCKO, but at least I know what the problem is as e-coli can cause a bout of feather mutilation. SO, today she starts her regimine of antibiotics. Hopefully, this feather mutilation will stop. If not, I'm going to chalk it up to hormones and the e-coli together.

Thanks again for all of your well wishes and support everyone! It all means so much to me and just solidifies my feeling of love for this wonderful place!! laugh

Heather

#42130 - 02/06/04 08:12 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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So glad to hear you found out what's going on with Chloe. Hopefully since it's not a habit, she'll stop now that she's going to be feeling better. You both have been in our thoughts and prayers.

Maria

#42131 - 02/06/04 11:32 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Heather,
This is the absolute best news! Not that your baby had a bacterial problem... but that this isn't solely psychological. I know ecoli is nasty and wish you the best with meds, but having solid answers instead of only questions must lift a burden. I hope this resolves your baby's plucking problem. Keep us updated, please.

#42132 - 02/07/04 01:31 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Heather, you must be so relieved to have some idea at last as to what brought this on so suddenly. I wish Chloe a speedy recovery. Thanks for sharing this experience with us and giving us the update. We have all learned much from your experience. Let us know how things progress.

#42133 - 02/07/04 01:48 AM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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That is wonderful news smile Janet

#42134 - 02/20/04 08:21 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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I just found this thread and am so happy to read that there might be a solution. I too have found myself with tears in my eyes reading stories on this board. We have 5 M2's at the moment and have been dealing with the hormone thing for some time with 2 hand fed males about 13 years old. No extreme feather plucking besides the younger one removing a few feathers from his legs.

I just want to make a comment on leaving the birds with full flight. We like to let our birds have their flight, in fact the younger one has been in the top of a 60 ft pine tree many times and comes down when called. But with that ability to fly comes a certain "cockiness" that goes away when clipped. The younger one had been getting a bit too much to handle in this department, in fact he had been so wild we didn't know if we could handle him and were at our wits end not knowing what to do, mainly because he has a thing for my wife who was his mother since day 1 but now we believe he views as a mate. So we decided to clip him after not doing so for several years. Since I can handle him and can do just about anything with him, I sat him on my lap and he watched as I clipped the outer 5 flight feathers from both wings. He watched without a care, without the worried look some of my birds exhibit. In fact I think he would have helped if he could have. Interesting the effect it had on him. He instantly changed his attitude. He calmed down very noticably. He didn't even attempt to fly like he had been 5 minutes before, but instead when I put him back on the cage and he wanted to come over to me he crawled down the cage and walked over. He could easily have flown the 10 ft., and has done so since, but at that time he seemed to know he was grounded without even trying his wings.

I guess from my observations I think that leaving a bird full flighted may not be a good thing in captivity. Maybe knowing they can fly but not yet be completely free becomes a frustrating thing for them. The cause of feather plucking? Maybe. I'm not suggesting this a complete solution, but he sure seems to be more content since his clipping.

I share the views of a lot here and realize that really Cockatoos are wild animals that need to be free. We have a wild caught pair who are were our pets and still are when separated. We've had them over 20 years. We let them breed mainly because they wanted to. We have decided to keep them apart and stop adding to the population. There simply are not enough people out there willing to accept the commitment.

Just my thoughts.

#42135 - 02/23/04 03:54 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  

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Honestly, it depends on each bird when it comes to the decision of clipping or not. Chloe has never been clipped and I feel this has helped her become a more independent cockatoo. I don't think that leaving a bird fully flighted would contribute to feather mutilation, I think that clipped birds are more likely to pick than unclipped. (of course there are many, many factors and situations that would cause picking, not just the clipping issue). Just my opinion of course.

As for Chloe, she has stopped feather mutilating completely since I finished her antibiotics!!! I'm very, very relieved! laugh

#42136 - 02/23/04 04:25 PM Re: Yet another sad story..UPDATE!  
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Hooray Chloe and Heather! That is GREAT news! We're so very pleased there's a happy ending to your story.

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