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#261020 - 02/22/18 01:44 PM Hormone season  
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BE2Cassie Offline
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This proved to be a very difficult hormone season for Cassie. She began early and laid 3 eggs in late November. She only sat on the eggs for a week and left them. Then began laying again 2 in January followed a week later with a third. So six eggs in two months. This past summer Cassie's calcium level was a little bit down so she went on a calcium gluconate orally for two weeks. In September we rechecked her before the season began and her calcium levels were great. After she laid in November we rechecked her calcium levels near the end of December and they were low but still within the normal. Pulled anything that could interfere with her uptake of calcium. We increased all of her veggies rich in calcium. I brought her back to be rechecked in February after she laid the egg the end of January. I was concerned that there may have been another egg, as the signs were all there and she wasn't sitting. More blood work which Cassie fought like mad causing the vet to try both legs and finally it was taken from her wing. While waiting for the results to return Cassie began favoring her right leg. Back we went to the vet a week later for x-rays and to get her results of the blood work that showed that her calcium had really dropped significantly. The x-ray showed her bones had thinned from the decrease in calcium and that she had developed arthritis in her hip and knee. She is now calcium gluconate IM and metacam. Anyone here have luck with calcium suppliments? I have tried tums and some other suppliments but to no avail with her. I used to use MSN I think it was called, a power sprinkled on her pellets that she would eat. Now I can't find it and wondering if I have the wrong name. Going to have to search google to see if I can find it anywhere.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261021 - 02/22/18 09:12 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I'm sad to hear Cassie's having such a rough time of it! I'm so lucky with Monty... she always threatens to lay, but she never actually has since that very first one. I feel like calcium gluconate is pretty standard to use in that sort of situation, but I'm sure there are several supplements out there to help maintain her calcium levels. I'll ask my vet(s) for an opinion on good calcium supplements when I go in for work today. I'll also inquire about joint supplements and pain control - Metacam is also pretty standard use, but I know it can cause issues if used long term with some patients and I'm paranoid and like to have fall back options.

It was recommended to me by a wildlife rehab specialist to give Ben one extra strong Tums (750mg calcium carbonate) per cup of his kibble blend, but it's largely to counteract the high potassium levels found in cat food so I'm not sure how helpful that is, especially since you've already tried Tums with Cassie.


My flock: Monty (Eleanora/medium sulphur crested cockatoo), Benjamin Button (European Starling).
#261022 - 02/23/18 12:21 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Thank you Ill be interested in hearing their suggestions. I'm hoping that the vet puts Cassie on something different for the inflamation once it's under control, maybe a natural supplement instead of the drugs.





'


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261029 - 02/25/18 03:23 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Unfortunately the vet on shift was more comfortable with reptiles and wasn't comfortable in general with outright giving medical advice for a case she isn't familiar with (litigation issues - she's very cautious). She did mention that you might want to discuss Lupron with your AV if hormone-season measures aren't reducing her laying enough, or even the possibility of spaying Cassie. She couldn't recommend any supplements without a consult/bloodwork to look at, but did say to talk to your vet about potentially adding a calcium carbonate supplement after Cassie's calcium levels are back to normal such as ZooMed's Avian Calcium, which is apparently a more pure, digestible form than is found in Tums. That could potentiallybreduce the chances of her calcium levels normalizing on the calcium gluconate only to crash once she was off it again. She did warn that if there was noticeable thinning of the bones that it might be too late to reverse it. No comment on more natural pain control/joint supplements, Sorry!

(aside: I also stumbled across that Tums may contain traces of lead - yikes! I'm not entirely sure how truthful that claim is and i'd have to dig deeper, but I'll be getting some avian calcium for Ben from now on, I think...).

I'll try to talk to our more Avian focused exotic vet during the week and see what she has to say. Monty fell off the shower rod today during her "rain dance" and landed pretty hard on her left wing, so I want to book some time anyway. She's letting me manipulate the wing and she's holding it normally, but it seems slightly swollen at the wrist and she's sporadically flicking it every once in awhile. I don't think she's really hurt, but i'd rather have that confirmed.

This is personal conjecture, but if Cassie's low on vitamin D3 it could affect her calcium absorbtion. Does she have full spectrum lighting? Can't hurt might help!


My flock: Monty (Eleanora/medium sulphur crested cockatoo), Benjamin Button (European Starling).
#261030 - 02/25/18 11:32 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I hope Monty isn't hurt. Did a quick google of lead in Tums. Back in 97 it was found in calcium supplements. From what I was reading oyster shells are mined from deep sea beds where the lead is found naturally. Didn't find anything related to Tums though.
Thank you for talking with your vet. I am going to try to get Cassie back in next week to see the vet. She isn't improving on the metacam very fast. Each day she seems to be doing a little bit better. This all came on so suddenly after having blood work done Im really wondering if the pulling didn't inflame the joints. She is a real workout to get blood from and almost impossible to hold on to. She used to have a full spectrum light and it broke last winter. I forgot about this summer and didn't really worry about it because she was out side almost daily. Going to order a new one today.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261031 - 02/25/18 06:29 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Nancy, fruit flavored Tums are calcium rich. Search for some old posts by JavaOne


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#261032 - 02/25/18 06:47 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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The Princess wont touch any Tums the fruit flavored or the mint, I need an unflavored one for her, EM! I'm going to search JavaOne's post and see what she had to say. Thanks


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261033 - 02/26/18 09:57 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Keep us updated please!


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#261034 - 02/26/18 12:15 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I'm wondering if I could hide the fruit flavored ones in some coconut whipped topping. That's what I am using right now to give her metacam. The coconut flavor is really strong and may mask the tums taste.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261035 - 02/26/18 01:55 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Try grinding up the tums and then mixing it in with the topping or mashed bananas. We did this with our tortoises...bananas did the job. We had an Irish setter that we ground his meds into doggie food which worked well. Ground up items almost to a powder are better masked because they are smaller and the animal does not break and taste them.


Susanne
Our flock: 2 RB2s
Our herd & rescue: turtles, tortoises, other reptiles
#261036 - 02/26/18 02:23 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Just read RB2sMom response before the below response was to be sent, but here it is anyhow.

My U2 will not eat peanuts, but loves peanut butter. Also he will not eat grapes, but really likes grape juice. Trickery may be worth a try. My point is he may not like the shape of the food. In other words presentation.

This has worked for me. Get Tums Smoothies. Stress it must be Smoothies because they are softer than regular Tums. Take a tablet and with a sharp knife cut each tablet into quarter pieces and deposit them into original Tums container.

To test give a favorite food for your 2. Mine happens to be Nutraberries. Take one Tums piece between your thumb and finger and crush into a powder over the food (Sometimes the piece is too hard and may require the use of pliers). Hope this works for you. If it does then try sprinkling his daily pellets/food.

#261038 - 02/27/18 12:59 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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I am going to get some tums tomorrow and try them in the Coconut Whipped topping. She really likes the topping so long as I eat some first. One spoon with the spoon end topping and meds the handle end with plain topping. Gets her everytime. She thinks she's getting something that's mine.


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#261039 - 02/27/18 06:54 AM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Hehe I do the same with Monty when she needs meds! Nut butter gets her every time - at least as long as she doesn't see me put anything in it!

Good luck with the Tums! Ben takes his really well, but he's been on it since he was a chick and doesn't seem to notice when his food has been doctored. Fingers crossed that it helps gets Cassie back on track. Hormone season has been brutal.


My flock: Monty (Eleanora/medium sulphur crested cockatoo), Benjamin Button (European Starling).
#261040 - 02/28/18 03:24 PM Re: Hormone season [Re: BE2Cassie]  
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Just a word of caution. It is also possible to over supplement so always check with your AV first. I know Nancy has but just want to be sure future readers are informed.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress

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