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#218536 - 03/25/10 06:21 AM Ezzie is MAD at us!  
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Lolitta Offline
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Hi all, I need advise (again) We went on vacation in Feb, We were only gone a week! Ezzie has been displaying some BAD attitude since we came home! Not only is she a NITE owl, she throws major fits all nite long and has plucked a few feathers out! My boys stayed home with her, they played with her everyday! Her routine has not changed but she HAS! Is this normal? I was also told to put a couple drops of vinegar in her water to stop the plucking, does this help? Will it harm her? She still doesnt like me alot.. She LOVES my husband! She even steps up for him! Me, well if I get near her cage without food, you'd think I shot her.. the way she throws herself to the bottom of the cage! BUT im NOT giving up! Thanks!!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218539 - 03/25/10 02:22 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Lolitta, if she is yelling at night and wasn't before, your sons probably reinforced this by going and getting her when she was yelling. So ignore it once you put her to bed. I am very lucky in that Zazu did this when I first got her. I was used to complete silence when I put Sugar my C2 to bed. Zazu yells occasionally and because I wasn't used to it, I thought there was something wrong with her so went to investigate which is a huge mistake. I am very lucky I did not create a problem when I did this. I did not know about ABA then.

If Ezzie is throwing herself to the bottom of the cage, it sounds like she is scared of you. Is she? If she is, you need to work on that. Are you going to go through the book with us on Applied Behaviour Analysis?

A couple drops of organic apple cider vinegar in her water won't hurt but I doubt that will stop the plucking. Just make sure she is still drinking.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#218598 - 03/27/10 07:23 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Originally Posted By: Lolitta
We were only gone a week! Ezzie has been displaying some BAD attitude since we came home!
Her routine has not changed but she HAS! Is this normal?
She still doesnt like me alot.. She LOVES my husband!


Hi Lolitta,
I suggest you try and think like a parrot - from her POV.
Parrots are flock animals -in the wild, their prefered 'mate'(sounds like yr husband) would never just take off and be out of contact for a week - just doesn't happen. They are within vocal range of their flock 24/7 for the whole of their lives. So it would have been a major deal for your parrot that you had a week away - - she is simply responding like a bird - and a bird that has had her flock security altered. So you see, her routine HAD been changed, quite dramatically in fact.
When you say she is 'mad' at you both - can you describe the behaviour you are seeing in observable terms? (She is vocalising loudly, her body language - what do you SEE her doing etc) and we will be able to help you break down what she is actually trying to communicate. It sounds like she has chosen your husband as her human 'mate' and that you are lower in the flock heirachy than either your bird or your husband - I assure you, she will not 'hate' you, you have just been assigned a place in the flock that is lower than your husband, and perhaps even her. There is a lot of things you can do to modify her response to you by the way - I suggest you let Bev guide you through some ABA.
In the meantime, I strongly suggest you have a read of the article on 'Natural Birdmanship' by Dr Mike Doolan, (link below) - it will give you valuable insight into how your bird is trying to communicate with you and WHY she responds the way she does to different circumstances.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=122986#Post122986


Good luck,
Anita

#218660 - 03/29/10 06:27 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Lolitta Offline
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Originally Posted By: ZazuSally
Lolitta, if she is yelling at night and wasn't before, your sons probably reinforced this by going and getting her when she was yelling. So ignore it once you put her to bed. I am very lucky in that Zazu did this when I first got her. I was used to complete silence when I put Sugar my C2 to bed. Zazu yells occasionally and because I wasn't used to it, I thought there was something wrong with her so went to investigate which is a huge mistake. I am very lucky I did not create a problem when I did this. I did not know about ABA then.

If Ezzie is throwing herself to the bottom of the cage, it sounds like she is scared of you. Is she? If she is, you need to work on that. Are you going to go through the book with us on Applied Behaviour Analysis?

A couple drops of organic apple cider vinegar in her water won't hurt but I doubt that will stop the plucking. Just make sure she is still drinking.

Bev




I dont think shes afraid of ME...But her previous "abuser" was a female and I believe she associates her with me frown With that said I work with her everyday on trying to get her used to me! I can FINALLY scratch her head and beak. The boys said it didnt start until we came home?!? I can assure you they wouldnt RUN to her, they would probably close their doors and turn the TV up! I bought a fish tank and Im putting her in it today, because i went in there last night when she was screaming and I think shes falling alseep and falling to the bottom of the cage.. I read that a flat box or tank may help her feel more comfortable or rest better.. any suggestions? During a fall last week she completely pulled a toe nail out!! The Vet said its ok, but they have to wear gloves and completely hold her down to check her and it takes several days for her to calm down from that! I would love to go thru the book with you, where do I find it? Or what thread do I go to? I want her to STOP plucking, she is hurting herself!! I started dancing and whistling to her and she is repeating it now, she started spreading her wings and OMG she doesnt have the lower wing feathers ?!?!?! Shes never spread them in front of us before so I didnt know how bad it is.. I dont find feathers in her cage or anywhere, I think they've always been gone, but she is plucking "down" type feathers and about 4 tail feathers.. Shes drinking the vinegar water but she doesnt drink much water at all, she never has! I read on here about the hot peppers they like and mangos, so I got her some Sunday... She threw them to the bottom of the cage and wont touch them! Im willing to do anything to help her, I just need guidance in what to do!

Originally Posted By: anitamarie942

Originally Posted By: Lolitta

We were only gone a week! Ezzie has been displaying some BAD attitude since we came home!
Her routine has not changed but she HAS! Is this normal?
She still doesnt like me alot.. She LOVES my husband!



Hi Lolitta,
I suggest you try and think like a parrot - from her POV.
Parrots are flock animals -in the wild, their prefered 'mate'(sounds like yr husband) would never just take off and be out of contact for a week - just doesn't happen. They are within vocal range of their flock 24/7 for the whole of their lives. So it would have been a major deal for your parrot that you had a week away - - she is simply responding like a bird - and a bird that has had her flock security altered. So you see, her routine HAD been changed, quite dramatically in fact.
When you say she is 'mad' at you both - can you describe the behaviour you are seeing in observable terms? (She is vocalising loudly, her body language - what do you SEE her doing etc) and we will be able to help you break down what she is actually trying to communicate. It sounds like she has chosen your husband as her human 'mate' and that you are lower in the flock heirachy than either your bird or your husband - I assure you, she will not 'hate' you, you have just been assigned a place in the flock that is lower than your husband, and perhaps even her. There is a lot of things you can do to modify her response to you by the way - I suggest you let Bev guide you through some ABA.
In the meantime, I strongly suggest you have a read of the article on 'Natural Birdmanship' by Dr Mike Doolan, (link below) - it will give you valuable insight into how your bird is trying to communicate with you and WHY she responds the way she does to different circumstances.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=122986#Post122986


Good luck,Anita





Anita,
Its all about the night time behaviour, Usually I hear her fall, then she walks around the bottom of the cage screaming and climbs up to a toy and shreads it or tries to! Then you hear her talk to herself for about 10-15 minutes! She dos this now about 2-4 times a night, it may have nothing to do with us being gone but I dont know what else would cause it! The weather has been warming up so I take her cage outside everyday (started the day after we came back) Could this be it? When I roll the cage she is screaming the whole time! I would stop taking her out, but I thought the fresh air and sound of other birds would maybe be good for her! Also its a great way to completely get her cage spotless in all the little corners and cracks! I dont spray her with the water at all! I cant even put a dish of water in her cage for her to play in because she throws her self to the bottom of the cage and whales around!! The only way i can bath her is to get warm water in a spray bottle and mist her and she screams, but I think thats a good sceam because she stays in one place... Any help from you would be great!! Thanks

Well Ive been reading on here almost all day and I may have answered my own question, I can NOT believe I have totally forgotten what I did to her!!!!!!!!!!!! I moved her cage the day we came back... She has been in the living room in the corner with 2 solids walls. I moved her to the foyer (thinking she would like the open area and light) Lord help me, I think Im loosing my mind!! She is going back to the corner right now and Pray my stupidity didnt do her great harm!!

Last edited by Janny; 03/29/10 11:39 PM. Reason: removed back to back posts and combined them.

Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218675 - 03/29/10 09:25 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Good call, Lolitta. Let us know how the change back to her original spot goes.

Bev

PS: Another thing, I absolutely would not move the cage with her in it. That is very traumatic for her and are you sure she likes being sprayed with the bottle. Does she spread her wings when you do it or has she just given up and just sits there.


Last edited by ZazuSally; 03/29/10 09:26 PM. Reason: added something

Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#218711 - 03/30/10 06:30 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Well its 12:30 and not a peep!! I cant believe that something so simple to us humans was so devestating to her! I also cant believe I forgot about moving her!! We have a problem with taking her out of the cage to move it! She still wont allow anyone to pick her up or step up... Unless she is on the floor (which only happens when I leave the door open lol) I have only tried the water spray 2 times, the first she raised her head feathers and screamed so I stopped... The second was this week when I noticed her wings ( I was dancing and whistling and spraying her) Her wings were spread all the way out! She screamed, but it wasnt a "I hate this" scream! I read that bathing them helps cut down on the dust and she may not pluck as much!! So I tried it! Is it harmful to her if I dont bath her? Thanks again for your help!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218720 - 03/30/10 02:24 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Lolitta, a bath is important but it can wait until you've made enough deposits into her bank account. You have to earn her trust and when you do things 1. she does not want to do 2. that scare her ie rolling the cage with her in it, you are taking away from that trust account. What you need to do is just leave her alone and start offering all kinds of things that you know she loves to eat. Dance with her, sing with her but leave her alone. You need to allow her to make the first move towards human contact.

The thing is you want to have a wonderful relationship with her but you must earn that. I screwed up my grey by taking her in the shower. She used to love having a shower with me but one day she didn't feel like having one but I decided that she should have one anyway and that was it. I took away her right to choose. Big mistake. She hated going in the shower. She's gotten better because I have worked on it and she does love to be misted, but that took work on my part to regain her trust.

Making a bird do something has a tendency to backfire.

How long have you had her?

Taking her outside is good but that can wait until you can do it without her in the cage. She probably has associated you with fearful things so you need to work on earning her trust again. I take my birds outside in a travel carrier and just sit with them for 1/2 hour or so.

Bev

Last edited by ZazuSally; 03/30/10 02:27 PM. Reason: added something

Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#218725 - 03/30/10 04:46 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Lolitta Offline
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We have had her a year. Her previous owner was HORRIBLE to her! 1st she bought her from a breeder for alot of money, then flew her here to Kentucky. Only to get tired of her and lock her alone in a room (she got her as a baby, unweaned and handfed!) She also wired a bbq grill grate about 12 inches from the top of her cage only leaving her a foot by 2 foot area to live in! Fed her walmart bird seed (nothing else) and when the rescue got her and her cage there was 14 in or so of POOH in the bottom of it!!! She was completely plucked on her tummy, all of which is back, but her wing feathers are gone! The way she was treated with NO human interaction is why she is this way, but i would think after a yr she would know in this house she is center of attention and we ALL try to work with her everyday! She LOVES my husband so he gets more from her.... Hes trying to work on step up with her, but shes SO non trusting! I offer her ALL types of food and she doesnt even try it! She throws it to the bottom of the cage or floor.. She does like peanuts.. So i am trying to use those as a "special" treat to get her to get closer to me.. It works 1 out of 25 times smile but Im good with that! I take her outside in the cage because I cant get her in a crate with out putting a box with towels under her cage and taking the pan out from under the it and when she gets mad she throws her self down (this is for the Vet travel) she falls in the box.......... NOT a good thing I know, but I do NOT want her to associate me with gloves and that whole terrifing mess. I really dont know of another way! She doesnt bite (or hasnt anyway) but if I dont take the bottom out of the cage she throws her self around when im trying to get her, im afraid she will break a wing or worse! And cleaning the cage she does the same thing so i figured out she likes the out doors and started taking her outside to clean her cage.. She climbs to the top as soon as we go out and doesn't FREAK when I clean it! Inside she throws herself around the whole time, So I started the box thing ........... HELP!!! I really dont know what else to do!

GOOD news: She slept ALL night long and seems a little less nervious this morning! smile She still isnt touching the peppers, they are hanging on a kabob and she avoids them completely!!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218729 - 03/30/10 05:08 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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i got pearl used to her travel carrier and her sleep cage by just leaving them open (one at a time, lol)right beside her open cage and putting treats in them. then i ignored her. she eventually got nosy enough to check it out when she thought i wasn't looking. i gave no reaction, just replaced the treat after she finally took it. after a while she got to associate these scary new places with good things and now she loves her sleep cage and will willingly go in her traveller too. (i still provide a little treat evry night before bed - her fave is millet, and either a treat or a favorite toy in the carrier)


gail, pearl(g2), bert(alex), and deaja(my little 'too mutt)
#218730 - 03/30/10 05:12 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Lolitta, have you read the articles in the behaviour section? I think you should start with the Bird and the Bank Account.

And you absolutely should not wear gloves.

Bev

Tell me what does she eat every day?


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#218733 - 03/30/10 05:35 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Her diet is: 1/4 cup zupreem seed mix, 1/4 cup of Lafebers premium diet pellets and 1/4 cup of some "cereal" looking food I bought for cockatoos at Pet Smart.. (I pour the bags in containers to store them and I forgot the name of it) I offer her oatmeal or yogurt in the mornings, At lunch if I have a banana, mango, apple or other type of fruit I put some in her cage, at supper I take veggies and or pasta out before I smother them with Bacon greese or butter and put them in her cage.... I also hang peppers in her cage for her to try.. I put nuts of all types in everyday! I was using a special dish for it, then I thought she just didnt like the dish so I bought another one like her nut and seed mixture dishes! She goes over to it and THROWS it everywhere as she screams!! She hasnt eaten anything BUT my son put potatoe chips in there and she tried it.. Last night I put a garlic and cheese crouton in there and she ATE it! I put a millet spray on the side of the cage and she likes destroying it.... I read Galahs like to forage and someone suggested grape nuts in a box with treats inside I tried it several times she screams for 40 minutes a throws her self down Im afraid shes gonna get hurt so I take it out.. I know these arent the best things but we are trying everything we eat to try to find something she enjoys and will respond to as a treat! She does like peanuts in the shell. But she wont take anthing out of our hands.. I put chamomile tea and she wont drink it at all! Ive tried several type of herbal teas and she wont try it... Any suggestions??


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218745 - 03/30/10 09:13 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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No, it sounds like you have a very scared little bird there so you need to desensitize her to new things.

Lolitta, why don't you follow along as we go through the book on ABA. That will really help you with Ezzie.

Did you read the articles in the ABA forum?

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#218748 - 03/30/10 11:15 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Lolitta Offline
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I have started reading the articles on the ABA forum! I have read the Bird and the Bank account..... It makes great sense BUT Food is not a deposit for her.. Im struggling to find out what is! I did take her outside today and told her how pretty she was the whole way out and she didnt seem to be AS scared as she has been! I also read where someone placed a shallow pan in the bottom of their cage and their bird bathed itself....... It WORKED!!! I was spring cleaning in my room (the front porch can be seen from there) And I heard her start talking, so I went to the window and she would drink then talk.. After quite a bit of drinking she SLOWLY stepped in the pan and was splashing in the water smile She did this for about idk about 5 minutes or so and then stepped out and started SCREAMING!! I believe it was a "good" scream lol. She then climbed up on her perch spread her wings and dried! I was so thrilled I wanted to scream!!

I will try to catch up on reading all the articles in the ABA forum and hopefully get on the right track with her!! Thanks so much for your help!!!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218749 - 03/31/10 12:35 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Good for you both!!!!!! Did you by chance have a vacuum running when she decided to take her dip in the pan? I know this has helped the rest of my flock out in getting wet. Something about the vacuum mimics the thunder vibration and makes them want to get wet as if it were raining.I had also used this to get my African Greys willing to take a misting shower on their cages by running the vacuum and waiting for them to start playing in their water and then spritzing them all while they are bathing themselves. It has worked so well and now to date it has helped allot of my birds get used to bathing and misting.

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/flbjan/Ripley/?action=view&current=100_0989.flv

Sometimes birds aren't food motivated. Sometimes just talking to them or dancing with them is praise and reward enough. I used to think my M2 Bailey was not food or treat motivated...well he wasn't when he was away from his cage and I was offering by hand. I had to actually place it in his dish or on the table etc and then he would take and eat it gleefully. Something to try anyway.It can be anything from sunflower seeds halved,peanuts quartered or chopped up grape. It has to be something small enough not to fill them up but reward enough to do it again.Bailey is one that LOVES praise and if you get excited with him and act all happy...you couldn't make that bird happier. He is driven by our response to things.lol.

Are you putting the butter or bacon fat on her pasta...if so please don't. These birds have a hard time with fatty foods and we have to be careful about that as well as the junk food.

If you have a chance please look at the food page although you seem to have a fairly good idea of what to feed that they need already it can help some and we also have allot of different recipes in the diet section.

When I introduce something new to one of the fearful birds...I set it a little ways away from the cage and slowly over a week time let it get closer and closer watching how they are reacting to it to see how close it can be.Eventually they realize it isn't going to kill them.lol.

http://www.mytoos.com/food.shtml


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#218750 - 03/31/10 12:57 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Janny]  
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The Video was adorable! I cant wait until Ezzie allows me to do things like that with her! NO I dont put anything on her Veggies and Pasta not even alfredo or tomatoe sauce! I went to a bird toy and food site that was posted on her and ordered her 150.00 of FOOD! They have all kids of freeze dried Veggies and Fruits.. Who knows maybe I will get lucky and she will LOVE something smile I will try to open her cage door tomorrow and place something different on the door and see what she does!! Oh and I had been running the vacuum today, not sure if I was when she started talking but I have been in OCD cleaning mode all day!! LOL Thanks again for helping me (and Ezzie) !!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218751 - 03/31/10 01:02 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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sometimes food that pearl rejects in one form is loved in another. whole wheat rotini is just scary but whole wheat spaghetti is a favorite. carrots are flung unless they are sliced in disc shapes - not little squares. pepper chunks on skewers go over big but not so much in a bowl. oh, and grapes must be sliced in half.

a bit crazy, i know, but that just seems to be the way it works. don't give up.


gail, pearl(g2), bert(alex), and deaja(my little 'too mutt)
#218788 - 03/31/10 05:00 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: dirtgirl2009]  
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Lolitta it all takes time and patience.Each one of our birds are different and each one is going to react differently to what is happening in their life. One of my M2's will take to a new toy immediately and I don't have to worry about the visuals much before putting it right in the cage while another M2 is totally freaked out by a new toy even if it resembles the one that he just destroyed... You just never know. So with all of them I try to figure what works for them.

One thing I noticed and I like is that you are trying to read your birds body language and mannerisms.That is the foundation to build on. Once you know those little postures and that certain way they hold themselves and what it means your off to a great start. You are trying to listen to your cockatoo.

Give it some time and you will get the trust you deserve.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#218789 - 03/31/10 05:06 PM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Janny]  
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Originally Posted By: Janny
Good for you both!!!!!! Did you by chance have a vacuum running when she decided to take her dip in the pan? I know this has helped the rest of my flock out in getting wet. Something about the vacuum mimics the thunder vibration and makes them want to get wet as if it were raining.


I didn't even think about that! Angel goes crazy when I vacuum and throws the water out of her bowl. It never occured to me that she liked it. I thought she was throwing a fit!

#218822 - 04/01/10 04:05 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Kristikae]  
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Update: Another peaceful night smile I tried some oatmeal this morning with a pinch of brown sugar, NO luck!! I put a cut up grape and a whole one in another dish, No luck! This evening I put about 15 frozen (well they were warm lol) in with her favorite seeds... She actually picked them up and tasted them and I believe she may have eaten a couple.. Im not sure because I walked away trying not to let her see me watch her! Next time Im counting them! Im going to try mango tomorrow, dont want to overload her today! Surely there must be something in this world she enjoys to eat OTHER than a seed!!


Lolitta
Ezzie(RB2)Mango(caique)Kirah & Bella(dobie)Toots&Dayzee(yorkies)Katie(Aussie)RIP Radar!
#218823 - 04/01/10 04:16 AM Re: Ezzie is MAD at us! [Re: Lolitta]  
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Posts: 242
canada
i find pearl doesn't like sweet mushy fruit as much as she likes crisp crunchy fruit. mango and banana were totally rejected. apples and cold grapes are ok. i think sometimes it's a texture thing for them. she likes waaaay more veggies than fruits with sweet potato, beets (vampire beak) and corn being some of her faves. oh and she likes spicy. little rings of jalapeno peppers make her happy.

you'll figure out what she likes and rejects. smile


gail, pearl(g2), bert(alex), and deaja(my little 'too mutt)

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