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#198633 - 04/15/09 09:45 PM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Bogie's Buddy]  
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EchosMom Offline
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John, you didn't miss a post on this particular thread, but there is some history to Bev's sharing her knowledge of ABA here at MT's. There was some attempts (off this board) to supress her from doing so. Not anyone that is a member here, but individuals from other groups.

I agree with you, Bev's articles and the way she explains things are easy to understand and have helped all who have taken the time to read, and apply them to their relationships with their bird/s. We're lucky to have her here!!!


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#198634 - 04/15/09 09:52 PM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Beeps]  
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Quote:
It sounds like he was brought up without essential living skills

I agree with Beeps. This is exactly what my male M2 was like. He did not know the appropriate way to interact. He thought biting me was the way to get my attention. Boy did he ever get it. cry eekThe pain was awful, I cried and got excited which reinforced his biting. It was not until I curbed my reaction,And boy not reacting was so hard, that things started to change. It will take time, but you can teach Sysco the correct way to interact. Watching the body language is the most important thing for you and your wife to learn. It takes constant viligance to understand the way these guys work. I also recommend stick training so you do not have to towel him. Have you tried to make it rewarding for Sysco to step onto a stick? My Charley was afraid of the stick, but I gave him excited and loud praise the first time he did not hiss at the stick. It was just a day or two and he was stepping up on the stick. Now it is his prefered way of travel. cool
You have taken on a great challenge, but it sounds like you are willing to try hard. Good luck. smile
Sharon


You have two choices: accept things the way they are, or have courage to change them. J Kanani


#198644 - 04/15/09 11:28 PM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Bogie's Buddy]  
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bauercrew Offline
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Thanks EVERYONE for the response It seems that that everyone agrees on the "it takes time" hey i got plenty of time i hope at least 40 more years if the man above has anything to do with it L.O.L like i said before, when HE wants something HE comes to me for it,but the stick thing, my god i cant believe how scared he is of it,at least when he flies at least he is not attacking l.o.l

#198653 - 04/16/09 03:26 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: bauercrew]  
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Thanks EM, I really appreciate what you said. All I ever wanted to do was help birds stay in their homes. That's it. No more, no less. ABA works and anybody can learn how to turn unwanted behaviours into wanted behaviours. You just need the right tools. Thanks everyone for the support.

Bauercrew: try different kinds of sticks or a perch. It doesn't have to be a stick. Just something that will support his weight. Maybe you could make something similar to a perch he uses in his cage? I can pick Zazu up with oven mitts. Not that I've ever needed to but I was just trying out my ABA skills. LOL

Like JJ said, you could desensitize him to the stick.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#198764 - 04/17/09 12:40 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: ZazuSally]  
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How do you feel about wrapping something around your arm - tensor bandage, splint, piece of leather rather than using a stick?? I was thinking that way if it bites, at least it won't do quite so much damage - on the other hand, it that just allowing the bird to bite you knowing it won't hurt?? Only been a member since this morning - but I think the advice here is really such common sense that when you read it you think....huh.....why didn't I think of that!!?? Good work all. I love it! Kelly

#198768 - 04/17/09 12:51 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: KellyCalgary]  
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Some members have done that and if nothing else it will give you some confidence but...beware of the fact that you are still trying to avoid bites.

Is there a certain treat he really likes and will do anything for? That is what i use to get my birds back into their cages. I stick the treat in the dish and let them see me do it. They usually will go in for it. BUT! Don't close the door all the time. If you do it won't work. The first few times I just let them sit and have the treat. Then other times within a day I will plop the treat in the dish and let them just have a treat so they know not everytime means the door closes. I know have it so when the birds see the treat container they go inside and wait for it.LOL. Kind of funny to pick up a container and you see all these birds climb inside the cages but it works great. It is their choice to go in and have a great reward for doing it.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#198773 - 04/17/09 01:10 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Janny]  
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Everyone keeps saying doing it in bird time. This is so true. With Biddybe it took me almost two years to get her to step up, three years to eat good foods and four years to start shredding and chewing on wood. When the milestones happen it feels so good. Patience is a virtue so I have been told. I was never a patient person until working full time with animals. I've learned to not only be patient but to enjoy the time waiting. Everything happens in it's own time and when it does it feels fantastic! Building trust is one of the hardest things to be patient with. On both sides and one of the scariest. Cage bars sometimes not only give you security but also the bird. Working to build the trust through the bars can be very rewarding in it's own right. The first time he takes a treat from your hand, the first time he bends his head for a scratch, the first time you scratch without fear, the first time he approaches first and doesn't retreat, the first time you approach without fear, the first time he sees a perch as a positive and not a weapon, the first time he reaches his foot outside the cage and takes hold of your finger in a gentle way and you stand there just holding. I could go on but I think the message is there.
Patience is a virtue but it's also very rewarding.
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#198807 - 04/17/09 04:42 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Bogie's Buddy]  
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I've been in your shoes I rescued Riley my U2 2 an 1/2 years ago and I've been biten 3 times really bad the last bite got me thinking can I hadle this bird ,I'm scared, do I want to keep him .
I sat down with a cup of tea ,I'm a dog trainer I knew I had to gain respect an control so back to basics 1) I never let Riley passed my elbow 2) I always have a big beach towl handy ,I taught Riley not to be scared of the towl by wraping myself up in it, nice blankie an he likes the blankie so when I need to towl him it's not a big deal I teach all my birds to be towled.
3) I watch the body launge crown raised , the eyes I've learned to read Riley pretty well most of the time.
4) last but not least I have the control ,when he comes out,his treats,when he goes to bed he needs to rely on me and behave to If he gets out of hand to time out he goes or I get bite..This really helped out alot and for the most part he's a wonderfull bird .
He screemed alot so I got to thinking what can I teach him so he'll not screem so much ,I taught him to sing ,you are my sunshine,row your boat,good night sweet heart,.It's fun for both of us.now he only screems at night before bed for about 15 minutes which is what they do in the wild.Riley is a 2 year old with feathers so to have loving guide lines rules like when my children were little it makes for a happy home.
Riley's wing feathers are clipped because I don't want to loss him out the door for one thing and because it made him hard to handle and I had no control. I wish you the best hang in there let us know how it works out. Ruffy

#198827 - 04/17/09 02:54 PM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Ruffy8489]  
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Ruffy, control is not a word that should be used in dealing with parrots or any animal for that matter. People who try to "control" their birds, get bitten unless they have taught the bird what is called "learned helplessness" and that means that the animal has learned that it is pointless to say "no" and just gives up. That is not what we want from our birds. We want them to have choices in their daily lives. We want their lives to be enriched. I don't want my birds stepping up or doing anything because they don't have a choice.

I have had enough people in my life try to control my behaviour and I can tell you it is not a nice feeling. I seemed to attact control freaks like flies to "poop". Finally at the age of 54 I have taken back my life and I've never felt better. That is the gift I give my birds - choice. Control is an illusion. You never have control of anything. I know because I used to be a control freak and thought it was normal to be that way but after some serious therapy in my middle 30's, I discovered that control freaks are actually very insecure people who try to "fix" other people rather than fix themselves.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#198925 - 04/18/09 11:59 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: ZazuSally]  
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Well said, Bev. After confronting control issues as you did, I now realize that eliminating my need to control people has given me true freedom. Now I need to drop my attemts to control Cleo.
Thank you.


Pat

One Day At A Time
#199170 - 04/21/09 02:46 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Ruffy8489]  
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Ruffy8489 Offline
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I think you all misunderstand me alittle bit ,I'm not mean to Riley anyone who has seen us together sees the love we have with each other but to save me from getting bit I had to come up with something, I find when I get Riley out when he screams I get bit,If I have a towl around my sholder this protects me .and if he gets scared he like his blankie it makes him feel safe .I've taken him places and he does wonderful.
I was scared of this bird but I promised him he wound be with me for ever and I didn't want to never handle him .
When it's breeding season I'm extra careful because he's more sensitive to everything.He's out most every day an goes pretty much where he wants what I needed is a safe way for me to handle Riley ,I don't use dalrodes,sticks because he very scared of them and I don't yell at him he gets scared (found this from the other owner). so if alittle controll when I hold Riley is a bad thing ,Isn't it better then him never being touch ,love by being touched, to me I would miss our cuddle time,I love this bird with all my heart and I rescued him to give the best life I can .But I want to keep myself safe to sorry if this upsets you . I love my pets I give them the best of me I can. The lady that had him before me got bit an he never got out because she was scared of him .His bits are way down know and he sings all the time. he even sings to my husband. I'm not saying the way I handle him will work for everyone but it works for Riley I've had a behaveorest do a assement on Riley he says Riley is a wonderful bird but he is tempermentle and if Rileys not scared an it saves me from getting bit then go with what works.He also said Riley seems happy. Ruffy

#199180 - 04/21/09 03:43 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Ruffy8489]  
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I don't control Chewy myself, Chewy is very free to do as he pleases. But then I'm not afraid that he's going ot bite me because he doesn't seem to have the desire to bite me. I ask Chewy if he wants to come out, I ask Chewy if he wants to be pet.
I have friends that tell me constantly that I am doing it all wrong htey need to submit too me. But I don't want a submissive bird. I want one that wants to be with me.
I don't even make him step up for other people. Only time that I do ask him to step up other then asking if hew ants too is if he's in a situation that can get dangerous. And there's not many in my apartment, he can go anywhere he wants too. I don't have a dog or a cat...even though I'd love both.
I am sure that Riley is a happy bird. And I don't mean to put you down or make you feel bad. Just giving my 2 cents worth...if it's worth that much wink


look to your birds for love
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#199196 - 04/21/09 05:11 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Chewy]  
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Walter Offline
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Quote:
But I don't want a submissive bird. I want one that wants to be with me.


I agree wholeheartedly. I consider myself blessed that Rocco always wants to be with me. If I sit on the couch he'll come to me. If I'm standing in front of the entertainment center he'll fly to me. If I'm in the kitchen or bathroom he'll come looking for me.

This might not work with every bird, but it worked for me and Rocco. (Make sure your hands are clean if you try this) When I first brought him home I was afraid of what that beak could do to me. I decided that I needed to get over my fear of the beak, so when Rocco was in a calm and relaxed mood he'd be sitting on my arm. I made it a point to gently rub his beak all over, even his nose, and soon discovered that he loved it. I even put my finger in his beak and gently removed any bits that were flaking near the edges. Now it's a daily ritual. But it helped me overcome my fear of his beak and increased my trust for him. I believe a bird can sense fear and distrust, and it's important to get past that as soon as possible. I never let my hand approach him from a blind spot, and always move it slowly, so I never startle him into a reaction.

Every bird has a unique personality, so this approach may not work for everyone, or it may take more time until this can be done. Just thought I'd put it out there because it worked for me.

#199202 - 04/21/09 05:51 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: Chewy]  
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EchosMom Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chewy
But I don't want a submissive bird. I want one that wants to be with me.


VERY profound statement Erin!!!

Walter, it's all about respect, building trust and confidence (on both sides) isn't it?!?!?!?!


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#199292 - 04/22/09 02:56 AM Re: honeymoons over, need help PLEASE if anyones on [Re: bauercrew]  
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This is for Bauercrew, It's hard to regain trust ,When Riley bit me(6 months after I got him) so bad I went the hospital I was scared and Riley was scared, they don't like blood. So he was scared for about a month or so. what I did sounds funny but it broke the ice , I read childrens books to him First he didn't come out of the cage but the more I read to him and sang to him the more he began to open up to me ,we'er friends now ,he's my best friend I still am carefull in handling him ,knowing how this scared him when he bit me I watch things more carefully. Don't give up on your bird there is so much to gain by hanging in there. Riley had me laughing so hard last night ,we sing together alot but last night he sang ,danced ,he laughed ,he was so much fun and after a hard day at work, how wonderful to come to Riley an share some laughs and play together. Ruffy

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