Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 28 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Search

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#198066 - 04/09/09 03:06 AM Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
Florida, USA
I am not going to mention names, but here is the scenario:

A VERY LARGE exotic bird speciality store is offering free shipping for purchases sent directly to a well known rescue. The rescue has included this "drive" in their newsletter and provided a link to the stores site, encouraging everyone to please visit and make purchases on their behalf and enter their code to receive free shipping.

Now, what is wrong with this scenario?? The store (which sells MANY baby birds which they get from their own birdmill in Florida) is reaping profits from the sale of their products. More money in their pockets to produce and sell more baby birds!!! And the rescue (while I understand the need for toys) is advertising and encouraging people to shop at one of the biggest players of the bird trade industry in the US.

So my question is, "Do the needs of the few, outweigh the needs of the many" in this situation? Should an avian rescue/welfare group be directing the public to shop, on their behalf, at a store that fuels the very the crisis of captive birds everywhere??

Last edited by EchosMom; 04/09/09 03:20 AM. Reason: changed store description so not easily identified via search engine

Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#198068 - 04/09/09 03:14 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: EchosMom]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 230
ILuvMyBE2 Offline
Member
ILuvMyBE2  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 230
Georgia
Wow! That is a deep question and I could probably argue either side of the question. IMHO this is a matter of what is right. Rescues of all places should understand the problem breeding causes and should not promote breeding. Therefore should not promote a business that promotes breeding. I think it is like dealing with the devil...just my opinion.


Peggy
(Owned by 1 budgie, and formerly owned by a BE2)
#198070 - 04/09/09 03:33 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: ILuvMyBE2]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Chewy Offline
Lives Here
Chewy  Offline
Lives Here
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,786
Washington
Unfortunately the two rescues near me are in to the bird store world too. One of them claims that the store only has "Rescued" birds in it. I haven't been there,in a long time, it's the same place that sold me Chewy.Unfortunately I guess they think that they need the money (which they do) and that is the easiest way to get it. By supporting the bird stores.

Last edited by Chewy; 04/09/09 03:34 AM.

look to your birds for love
Chewy RB2
Lightning-parakeet
Zeus-zebra finch
RIP
Eli
little foot Cockatiels
#198087 - 04/09/09 04:19 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: EchosMom]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,162
Charlie Offline
Admin
Charlie  Offline

Admin
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,162
Covington, LA USA
A thoughtful member sent me a webpage and I think the following quote from our "Mission Statement" thread addresses what I saw! frown

Quote:
From the Purpose and Mission Statement of the Gabriel Foundation of Colorado:

Quote:
The Gabriel Foundation is pleased to support responsible and ethical breeders who implement the very best standards of care for the
needs of the psittacine and parrot-like birds raised and housed in their aviaries.
These persons are dedicated to the environmental and
psychological nurturance and enrichment of their birdsí lives, pursuing continuing education in the fields of aviculture, husbandry,
behavior and veterinary care. These persons take into consideration the need to make a difference in the welfare of each and every bird that
they place. They provide wide-ranging educational and supportive care with the birdís lifetime welfare as its goal. They remain a continued
resource for the birds and to their human caretakers that facilitates the success of the human/parrot bond.
The Gabriel Foundation believes that it is critical to the welfare of future generations of parrots to liaison with quality
individual breeders, veterinarians and retailers who embrace the need to provide the public with comprehensive and accurate
educational materials and information regarding the specialized needs of parrots in captivity, those kept as companion pets and for
those needing our help to survive in the wild.

#198104 - 04/09/09 05:51 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Charlie]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
That really makes me want to vomit that a rescue can contradict itself so badly!!! sick

This just goes to show...make sure you look into where you donate and where you surrender birds too.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#198113 - 04/09/09 02:23 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Janny]  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,414
ZazuSally Offline
Lives Here
ZazuSally  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,414
Ontario, Canada
You know I swear if I hear one more time that they are only interested in the welfare of the birds, I will puke. They all have their own agenda and that's what they are interested in. Birds are the secondary consideration. It's like getting in bed with the devil. Rescue/breeding? Will they take responsibility when birds start being euthanized? I don't think so. They can blame that on the people who were told by the breeders that you need a baby bird to bond with you or this bird loves everyone. And since when did quality breeders have a 1000 bird facility. They ship them out to pet stores unweaned so they don't have to "waste" all that time on weaning them. Quality breeder is a bit of an oxymoron, don't you think?

If people didn't keep buying baby birds or even adopting birds with baggage, there would be no need for all the behavioural consultants that seem to be coming out of the wood work. Quite lucrative these days.


Bev

Last edited by ZazuSally; 04/09/09 02:25 PM. Reason: added something

Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#198114 - 04/09/09 02:25 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: ZazuSally]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,312
Rukesmom Offline
Lives Here
Rukesmom  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,312
Maine
What does everyone think of the Oasis in AZ? Are they better?Hope so!
Tania


Flock is Nina (U2), Tootsie (U2), Baby (LSC), Ruke (TAG),& Birdie (T2),
#198116 - 04/09/09 02:37 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Rukesmom]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,162
Charlie Offline
Admin
Charlie  Offline

Admin
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,162
Covington, LA USA
The Oasis appears to be a wonderful sanctuary. I have prepared a post that features "rescues" that espouse breeding in their Mission Statements, of course, if they had any intelligence, they would leave remarks like that OUT of their mission statement. If one is going to deceive people, and especially the parrots involved, go ahead, lie big time! Many more rescues probably have acceptable Mission Statements that are lies. This is why we always implore people to research and get to know the rescue you are working with or supporting monetarily. Here is that thread:

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=197608#Post197608

By forming this alliance with the devil (bird stores), they are admitting that there are not enough people that CARE to support their operation. This is where euthanazia is starting to rear it's ugly head. Many vets will tell you that we are at that point. So some "rescues" NEED their operations for more than the care of birds and are willing to do anything to fund it. Disgusting. mad

#198117 - 04/09/09 02:41 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Rukesmom]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Garnet Offline
Member
Garnet  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 495
Edmonton
Even as far as breeders go, that one is particularly bad. Their promotional video showed their birds and they were all in dull flight cages with perches and no chewing material or enrichment. Not that I think anyone needs to be breeding more cockatoos, but at the very least the birds could get some tree branches to chew up. Plus, I can't see how anyone could justify selling parrots and especially cockatoos in pet stores, considering we all know what happens to them in the end (passed around from home to home).

Even among the parrot-savvy people I know, the ones who will keep a *mature* cockatoo over the long term are scarce.

#198200 - 04/10/09 06:29 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Garnet]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
Originally Posted By: Garnet
Even among the parrot-savvy people I know, the ones who will keep a *mature* cockatoo over the long term are scarce.


Garnet you so very correct in saying that.I have been working with someone for a few months that has tossed the idea of finding a nice home for her cockatoo.This person is great and really has this birds welfare at heart and is trying very hard to keep him in her home but the truth is...they are hard to live with and takes special people to do it.Even the ones that haven't been passed around and abused or neglected can be difficult companions and show allot of issues behavior wise just form being in homes and caged.Even if they are given the best life possible. frown

But for a Rescue(or so they call it) to be hooked up with not only a breeding facility and stores is just SICK! Wonder how many surrenders are then bred in the future????


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#198205 - 04/10/09 06:56 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Janny]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 224
Walter Offline
Member
Walter  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 224
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think many of the breeders, "rescues", food, and toy manufacturers intentionally work together. One business feeds the other and the birds are the victims. Even "non-profit" organizations can be lucrative with a little creative accounting.

#198220 - 04/10/09 11:10 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Walter]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
Florida, USA
A rescue/sanctuaries primary goal should be to take a pro-active role in making changes in the world, so that someday there is no longer a need for their services. As long as the trade industry continutes to be fueled, that's never going to happen.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#198272 - 04/11/09 06:37 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: EchosMom]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Janny Offline
Moderator
Janny  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,082
Canada
Originally Posted By: EchosMom
A rescue/sanctuaries primary goal should be to take a pro-active role in making changes in the world, so that someday there is no longer a need for their services. As long as the trade industry continutes to be fueled, that's never going to happen.


My thoughts exactly.


Jan

Sometimes damaged goods are the best gifts the world has to offer
#198273 - 04/11/09 06:51 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Janny]  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,414
ZazuSally Offline
Lives Here
ZazuSally  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,414
Ontario, Canada
You know what the breeders are calling themselves now? Conservationists. Can you believe that? They want to stop that bill because it will effect them the conservationists. How many breeders do you know that have put parrots back into the wild? The problem facing parrots is habitat destruction so are they growing jungles too for them to live in? What a crock!!!

You know maybe they aught to get their heads out of their butts so they can see the forest for the one tree left standing for wild parrots to nest in.

I guess they are hoping people will buy into it and support them in their effort to stop that bill.

So don't listen to what anyone tells you, know exactly what that bill is. Learn as much as you can about it and then decide where YOU stand and act accordingly.

Bev


Owner: DebRan Bird Toys
#198447 - 04/14/09 12:03 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: ZazuSally]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
EchosMom Offline
Moderator
EchosMom  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,158
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: ZazuSally
You know maybe they aught to get their heads out of their butts so they can see the forest for the one tree left standing for wild parrots to nest in.
.

I second that!!!


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#201596 - 06/01/09 12:27 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: Janny]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 205
whitewings56 Offline
Member
whitewings56  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 205
rome, Italy
I thought the Gabriel Foundation was a serious organisation so I am really surprised at this; I have no words.
I have a few questions to ask:
1. When you buy parrots don't you need the CITES documents ?
2. How much do Toos like M2s, U2s sulphur and Citron costs ?
3. With the economic crisis people still have money to buy parrots - this has not discouraged buying parrots and sent some breeders out of business ?
4. Who buys all these parrots ?

#201597 - 06/01/09 12:42 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: whitewings56]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,825
BE2Cassie Offline
Moderator
BE2Cassie  Offline

Moderator
Chained to the Computer
*****

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,825
Wrentham, MA
Parrots here in the US are sadly sometimes a prestige "item" a nice conversation piece to add to the room. Toos start at a $1000 and go up to $25,000. Once the person makes that impulse purchase and brings the bird home they then realize that they are in over their heads. Most don't anticipate the noise and mess so the poor bird is resold or dropped off at a rescue. Here in the US you get a hatch certificate and the bird is banded with info engraved on the band.
Even with the economy as bad as it is you still see birds being sold on the internet, in pet stores and the want ads. Very sad state for most toos. A number of rescues are being overloaded with birds right now from people unable to afford to keep them.
Nancy


Nancy & Cassie BE2
#201722 - 06/03/09 11:51 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: BE2Cassie]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 205
whitewings56 Offline
Member
whitewings56  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 205
rome, Italy
Hi BE2Cassie
I see, I thought that the economic crisis could have helped to send some breeders bankrupt and discourage pet shops in selling parrots. Any way its a sad situation.
But $1,000 converted to euros is not very expensive considering the present exchange rate but does US $1,000 corrisponds to 1,000 euros in terms of cost of living ?
Sometimes people see my flock and they really like them and so I start my encouraging campaign : they are noisy and my female M2 never fails to confirm this because when people are around she gets excited and starts squacking and screaming and then they are great at remodeling your house items, like remote controls, furniture, telephones, PCs etc and I have some remodelled items!!!!! And then the expresson on the face of people changes and they look at me thinking I must be just a little crazy to live with this demolition team.
Once 2 friends came over and he left his hat on the kitchen table and there was Susy who took advantage of the confusion and took a bite at the hat and of course I then bought a new one even though as friends they said it didn't matter.
People don't realise the damages they can do and then they are so intelligent they see where you put things and then when they want something they study a way to try and get it its amazing

#201727 - 06/04/09 02:13 AM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: whitewings56]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,312
Rukesmom Offline
Lives Here
Rukesmom  Offline
Lives Here

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,312
Maine
Wish we could stop that store and expose the hypocracy...
Glad the Oasis looks good! I donate and am voting on the shelter vote for them :-)


Flock is Nina (U2), Tootsie (U2), Baby (LSC), Ruke (TAG),& Birdie (T2),
#201753 - 06/04/09 03:26 PM Re: Rescue and Large Exotic Bird Store [Re: EchosMom]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 143
Macawman Offline
Member
Macawman  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 143
Originally Posted By: EchosMom
... Should an avian rescue/welfare group be directing the public to shop, on their behalf, at a store that fuels the very the crisis of captive birds everywhere??


Absolutely not! In operating a legitamate rescue one most be ever mindful, with each word or deed, of the question "What message am I conveying here.". The nuances of that question can be quite subtle and difficult to see if you do not think an action through carefully. For example, the following point was made by a good friend of mine recently during a discussion of rescue/adoption vs. sanctuary.

Quote:
You have to address the problem at the root; and the root problem- trying to make 'pets' and 'companions' out of wild animals--is not as clear cut and often blurred in the adoption process. Essentially, you are asking them to take on an animal as a "companion/pet' that in essence you know is not meant to be a companion animal. But the adoption plan eventually also hits a dead end, since birds live longer, there are far fewer qualified homes, and the demand for baby birds will continue as you promote the adoption of older birds


In essense, by adopting birds into homes, rescues are inadvertantly reinforcing and legitimazing the idea in peoples mind's that it is okey to keep birds in captivity and in cages and perhaps even driving them to the breeder's door. Frankly, on initial presentation, this statement hurt my feelings a bit and I was even a bit miffed. However, the more I thought about it, the more truth I saw in it. The truth about truth is that you don't have to like it, you just have to accept it. Not that we have alternatives other then life-time sanctuary for every unwanted bird or euthanasia, but it does illustrate a point about the subtle messages that we may be passing to the uneducated with even our most innocent and honorable words and actions.

No, in my opinion, supporting those who advocate a life of captivity for any bird is not the appropriate message for any avian welfare group to be passing to the public.

Dave

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BE2Cassie, Beeps, Charlie, EchosMom, Janny 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.041s Queries: 15 (0.009s) Memory: 5.1554 MB (Peak: 5.5539 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2020-07-08 15:04:38 UTC