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#149480 - 01/04/08 01:40 AM Re: Katie and The Egg [Re: Snowy'Mommy]  
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YEAH Isabella!! I'm sure you are relieved - I am for you!

My motivation for giving the injections at home was because Echo flips out at the vets office. It was my vet's suggestion - to which I initially replied "NO WAY!! - LOL! But since she flips out at the vets office and I knew that if I could summons the courage, it would spare her lots of stress. My vet assured me that it's easy, and it is. There's quite a bit of breast muscle on either side of the keel bone and the breast plate protects the respiratory system, so with my 17 yr olds help (she restrains her), giving the injection only takes a few seconds and we're done.


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#149483 - 01/04/08 03:31 AM Re: Katie and The Egg [Re: Snowy'Mommy]  
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Thanks for the tip on oatmeal, SnowyMommy! I have been soaking her Avicake treat with it, but she can taste the fruit flavoring, I guess, and kind of eats around it, the little stinker! I'll give her plain oatmeal with a dollop of brown sugar. That should disguise the fruit flavoring of the supplement. I also went to Whole Foods this morning and bought her favorite kind of kale and broccoli crowns to put in her cage - more calcium.

I'll be on the lookout for another egg, sigh... Her poops are finally back to normal, so at the moment, at least, there must not be another egg occupying the tract.

EM - I understand why you are doing the injections yourself. I really hope they help Echo!! Luckily, Isabella is not terribly frightened of the whole vet office process. She even made it through two hours at the emergency vet without freaking out! And yes... I am relieved that she passed her egg without any trouble!

Annette


The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step - Old Chinese Proverb
#149490 - 01/04/08 04:51 AM Re: Katie and The Egg [Re: Snowy'Mommy]  
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Annette, please be overly observant & rush her in when your gut feeling says to, I lost my beloved Steiner girl Nov. 06, 2007 due to egg binding. You can read my prior posts for the whole story. She prolapsed awhile before her first eggbinding (Feb 07)which she strained so hard it tore thru the skin between her clocea & her back. The second one 9 mos. later (Nov. 07)cost her her life. It took 24 hrs to get her medical attn. That probably didnt do her any good either. They had her on Lupron Injections for 8 mos. I wish I had had them do the birdie hystorectomy, she might be still here. She always passed them about 10:00 11:00 p.m. after all vets were closed. Good lick & keep us posted.

#149571 - 01/04/08 09:39 PM Re: Katie and The Egg [Re: gizzytoo]  
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Hi T. J. Thanks for the warning! I had read about Steiner in one of your earlier posts, and I am so sorry for your loss! I was very aware of what had happened to Steiner and to Echo, Echo'sMom's M2 (she did survive her egg-binding ordeal). So, I did not hesitate to take Isabella to the ER avian vet when she didn't appear right. As you can see from my earlier posts on this thread, Isabella did lay her egg successfully, and I can only hope that she is through laying eggs for 2008! I'll keep a close eye on this, though. Hopefully, the Lupron shots will work for her this time like they did last year.

Annette


The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step - Old Chinese Proverb
#149739 - 01/06/08 01:56 AM Re: Katie and The Egg [Re: MissYumYum]  
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Glad that all the Toos are ok and hopefully will stay that way. I wish it had been so for Steiner as well and am so sorry for your loss TJ. frown

Katie is doing fine so far, shes eating well still but has been a bit distant and quiet the last two days.....today however, she was bouncing as usual so we'll see what tomorrow brings.


I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

~ Sonja & Katie U2 ~
#149951 - 01/07/08 05:57 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Crossfire]  
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Well, just when I thought we might be in the clear.... Today whenever she potties you can hear her vent clicking. She isn't straining but producing less than normal.

Shes still eating ok although this morning not so interested in the breakfast she usually dives right into and doing something she hasn't done since coming to live with us....shes plucking. cry I'm sitting right in front of her, talking to her and shes "grooming" or more like looking for her next victim, finds a newly sprouted feather, pulls with all her might and pop there goes another new feather. Shes pulled a few now that brought about blood spots.

I've tried talking to her, keeping her occupied with others things....she wants no part of it. Then I thought maybe the reactions she gets from me might cause more so I'm trying to ignore her now and see what happens. I have a call into the AV and I'm waiting for a callback. He'll be in this afternoon and so will we most likely.

She seems fairly happy and content, will even eat if I hand her a favorite food but she seems hell bent on pulling out feathers today. Even dances with me but.... Maybe shes pulling to make a nest?


I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

~ Sonja & Katie U2 ~
#149953 - 01/07/08 06:08 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Crossfire]  
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Crossfire, I am so sorry to read of this! Watching our precious babies pluck is almost the worst! Prayers for Katie & you.
The vent clicking seeems unusual, I'll be interested in what others say. May be time for a vet visit, or at least a call to her vet.

#149957 - 01/07/08 06:33 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: 1wingwonder]  
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CF, my M2's vent was pulsating and making soft clicking sounds when she was egg bound. When I was discussing her symptoms with my AV he said that it can be normal when they are in reproductive mode (not necessarily egg bound). Please keep us updated.

Edit: It may be time to re-visit Lupron w/your AV again. We are having what I consider moderate success here. Echo is better than she was. I saw 0 improvement after the 1st injection, which my vet told me to expect. The "good" days between injection #2 and #3 was only about 5. This time it's been 10 days and holding...#4 will be given no later than this Thursday (2 weeks from the last one).

Last edited by EchosMom; 01/07/08 07:23 PM.

Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#149969 - 01/07/08 07:29 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Crossfire]  
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So very sorry to hear this hun, my thoughts and prayers with you both!


~Olivia~
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#149973 - 01/07/08 07:53 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: SweetieToo]  
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Nothing to offer in the way of advice but just wanted to say I hope she's okay.

#150003 - 01/07/08 11:16 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Mona]  
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Oh Sonja, I am so sorry to hear that Katie is messing with her feathers while possibly incubating another egg. I was told that another egg can come within about 10 days of the first, so you are right in that window if that is indeed what is happening. If she does have another egg in there (and from the symptoms you describe, it seems likely), then your AV will probably be able to feel it in there, or maybe will do a radiagraph to determine for sure. Please give us an update soon!

I, too, think you might consider trying Lupron. Isabella is now on Day 6 after her first Lupron shot, and she is no longer using her toys for "fun." Last year the three shots spaced out over two months worked and she did not lay another egg. The jury's out on this year, but I am going to proceed with the other two shots - next is February 1, and the last March 1. I will also be on the lookout for egg number two, though, as that is a possibility.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers!

And EM - that is good news about Echo's response to Lupron. I'll continue to say prayers for you that Lupron works for her!

Annette


The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step - Old Chinese Proverb
#150063 - 01/08/08 04:37 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: MissYumYum]  
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EM, just curious, how often are Echo's shots ? Steiners were at first monthly for several months, the every other month till the last egg binding incident. The last injection didn't seem to phase her.

#150096 - 01/08/08 06:34 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: gizzytoo]  
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TJ, initially it was once every 2 weeks until she was pulled out of reproductive mode, then taper off to 3 weeks, then once per month.

I noticed marked improvement after the 2nd one, but it was very short lived - about 5 days and she went into full nesting mode again. I was talking to one of my dear friends (Java One) who is one of the most knowledgeble bird people I know. She has lots of experience w/Lupron and told me that w/some of her birds they need the injections more often. So on her advice, I called my AV and told him what was going on. He told me it was perfectly safe to step up the injections up to 1 x week, on an as needed basis. So the game plan for now is to continue at 2 weeks intervals - up to once a week, if needed, until mid-February when she should be out of cycle on her own. Then we'll pull her off and watch her the first indications that next season is upon us, then begin again.

If the Lupron fails, we will then revisit spaying her. But her quality of life has improved - she's still hormonal and a bit nesty, but it's not occupying her every waking hour. And we've been egg free - which was the primary goal.

TJ, I know that your heart is hurting over the loss of Steiner. Lupron is the most non-invasive treatment out there and spaying carries risk with it. You did what you felt was best for your little girl...please let go of the guilt you are carrying...I can sense it in your posts about her. She wouldn't want that. You could not foresee what happened.

CF - how's Katie???


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#150123 - 01/08/08 05:03 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: EchosMom]  
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Great advice, EM! T.J., I can tell how much you loved Steiner and I know you feel like you are to blame for her passing, but EM is right -- you need to let go of your guilt and live from this day forward with your love for her in your heart! She surely loved you, too, and you gave her many wonderful years with you. In the end, that's all that matters. She's watching over you as an angel now, and she would want you to forgive yourself!

And Crossfire, please let us know how Katie is when you can!

Take care,

Annette


The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step - Old Chinese Proverb
#150270 - 01/10/08 12:32 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: MissYumYum]  
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Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for all the info and everyone's concern. Katie is ok, she isn't egg bound and does not appear to have another egg in the making ( at least not right now ) but did seem "off" enough to warrant a trip to the AV. It's believed that her vent clicking is exactly as EM stated earlier, because she is in reproductive mode and everything there seems fine.

Her recent plucking is anyone's guess, either she was just super hormonal that day and decided to try and use the feathers for a potential nest since she didn't have access to anything else or something upset her enough to start it OR the new feathers coming in and their shafts may just be bothering her. The areas she pulled from are areas she cannot reach easily so preening isn't much of an option to help them along.

I sleep on the floor in front of her cage that night as well as the next and skipped work to stay with her. I was just so upset that she could be plucking again and even though the vet cleared her I still felt like I should be with her. I'm happy to report that she hasn't plucked since that day so whatever it was has at least passed for now.

My husband actually suggested that she might be lonely and not only enjoy having another bird around but that it might help her with those feathers she can't reach. I told him there would be alot of "whats ifs" such as what if they didn't get along, what if the other was a plucker and she picked up on that and tons more. Not that I don't think we don't have the room, time or love for another but we're still new to the world of the Too and I'm just not sure thats very wise before becoming fairly settled and comfortable with our care and daily lives with Katie. I'd love to see her with a good friend but I think thats best left for down the road.

Thanks again everyone for keeping us in your thoughts!


I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

~ Sonja & Katie U2 ~
#150274 - 01/10/08 12:56 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Crossfire]  
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Thanks so much for the update, I had been thinking and wondering how you were all doing.


~Olivia~
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#150279 - 01/10/08 01:11 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: SweetieToo]  
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Sonja - I am so relieved to hear that Katie is all right and that she has stopped messing with her feathers!! These little bits of fluff really do get us mostly sane, mature adults all wound up, don't they?? You are a great 'Too mom! I am amazed that your husband suggested getting a companion parrot for Katie! She certainly has him wrapped around her little foot, doesn't she! Your reasoning along those lines is very sound. If and when you decide to bring another parrot into your home, he or she will be lucky indeed!

Take care,

Annette


The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step - Old Chinese Proverb
#150282 - 01/10/08 01:23 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: MissYumYum]  
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Great news - I'm glad she's OK!!!


Birds are angels who lift us up when our own wings forget how to fly.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

Noelle, A Rehabilitation in Progress
#150321 - 01/10/08 04:56 AM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: EchosMom]  
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Birds do enjoy companionship' Even other species (not in the same cage, but the same room). You need to decide if you can handle another bird, though.


Gail
#150555 - 01/11/08 08:17 PM Re: Comments or Words of Wisdom Please. [Re: Bird Mom]  
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Thanks all smile

Yes, our little feathered whirlwinds do get us spinning quickly thats for sure! LOL I can't say that my hubby is the only one wrapped around that darling little claw but I seem to be the more "think it through" first out of the two of us when it comes to Katie. LOL The hubby, well, there are times....just as when our human children were small that I wonder who the adult really is! All in fun of course but sometimes I have to step between the two of them and say " ok kids, it's time to settle down before something gets broken or someone gets bit :coughs and gives evil eye to hubby::." smile

I agree Bird Mom ~

Our birds in the past always did seem to enjoy the companionship of another feathered member in the flock and I'm not totally opposed to the idea with Katie....maybe, eventually down the road but I feel that Katie would be best served having her flock more comfortable with her and her daily care / potential issues before diving into another adoption. Adoption would be the only way we would consider another and it's difficult for me to say no with so many in need believe me! There is a beautiful B&G with special needs ( her legs were broken and her feet deformed so she cannot perch ) not far from us and it's killing me not to visit with her but I know if I do, I won't rest until she is either with us or we're turned down by the rescue.

Not that adoption hasn't been discussed often, my husband brings it up several times a week, he feels strongly about it....feels that it isn't fair for Katie not to have another of her own kind ( parrot wise ) to communicate with and have by her side. I feel the same on some levels but don't want to be overwhelmed, want to make sure its the right time, that we can give another 110% without taking away from Katie and we plan on moving this summer so the timing isn't there either.

Perhaps some time in the future.... Anyway, thank you all again for your thoughts, concerns and prayers for Katie. We're so happy that shes ok! How are Isabella and Echo doing?



I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

~ Sonja & Katie U2 ~
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