Mytoos

A note about "Negativity"

Posted By: Lucy's Mom

A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 01:00 AM

Hi All-

I have been a card carrying member of this board since I re-homed my U-2 Lucy in June 2007. That said, at times, I cringed when I read some posts and yet, I understood every time where folks were coming from because I kept an open mind. I figure that when people get passionate about anything (like religion and politics) that they ca be a bit strident in their views.

There is nothing wrong with passion and caring. I say the only issue is not accepting that other people may not conform to what your beliefs are. With this site, there is a philosophy statement, so it is pretty evident that if you go way outside those boundaries, that someone will take offense or be 'not nice".

My goal by being on this board and reading the posts and learning what I can from the experts who live it like I do, is to make me the best cockatoo companion that I can be.

I never believed that I could become so attached to a bird...even more so than my dogs...it is an unbelievable phenomenon. Being a bird lover is unique. Once it happens, you can't go back.

But the biggest thing I learned on here is that I will never ever get another bird from a breeder or a pet store. I will re-home them all...I think that is the most important goal of all.

Peace to all,
Karen, Lucy and Pina
Posted By: rockinseattle

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 04:16 AM

Yeah some of the threads get heated and some of the post have high shock value but all I can say is if people own a cockatoo and they can't handle what is voiced on mytoos then they are in a world of.... because I guarantee a cockatoo can dish out 4x's as much as any one us can.

I suspect the people that are in it for the long hall don't mind and come to appreciate the frankness of this board.

What I really like about this site is it's frankness and the fact that there are people on here with different cockatoo experience levels. We all have something to share and we all have something to learn.

Thanks MyToos:}
Posted By: Bird Mom

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 04:59 AM

Education is what it's all about. You learn from your mistakes and try to teach others not to make the same.
Posted By: Charlie

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 05:50 AM

Thanks for the support! Negativity is very subjective and hard to quantify on the internet. One thing we will not do, no one here has the time for it, is argue and try to convince people to see our point of view. There are too many experienced members and the archive is huge. The search engine is available and the evidence is overwhelming. This can sometimes be construed as "negative" to some people.

We are, of course, short with trolls and people fronting outside agendas and this is to prevent chaos as this site is very large. wink
Posted By: ALI_G

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 06:05 PM

i appreciate the "blunt and frank" answers i recieve here.even when i am told i done the wrong thing. i think we all learn from this board. no one is perfect , but what help would it be if you guys only told people what they wanted to hear. none. so thank you all for the help. i practically live on here. i want what is best for my bird. that is why i want the truth.
Posted By: BellaOctober1

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 06:42 PM

So far <wink>, I haven't been on the other end of a blunt stick on this board.

I've lived in the gentle, fluffy South for 10 years, but direct-no-fluff Northern/Chicago blood still pumps assertively through my veins!!

I really do appreciate it when people are direct, but living in the South has taught me human beings really need to practice kindness no matter what they have to say. (ie: "Well Bless Your Heart, aren't you the stupidest little person." LOLOL)

What works best for me is to 'try' and remember that shock value isn't teaching, helping or understanding. It's changing the main topic/focus, to anger/insecurity/more ignorance; guaranteeing that person will quickly and happily slam the very door you are trying to keep open.




Posted By: feyleon

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By: BellaOctober1
"Well Bless Your Heart, aren't you the stupidest little person."


LOL! You just made me spit my coffee. Yep, that's definitely southern-speak...and I use it all the time.

Quote:

What works best for me is to 'try' and remember that shock value isn't teaching, helping or understanding.


I wish everyone could figure this out on their own. Some people are just far too blunt in situations where a little kindness would help to more effectively get a point across.
Posted By: Halo's human

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 08:09 PM

I agree with you both Feyleon and Bella, however, regarding people who need advice the most are the same that when you use kindness and tact, and attempt to keep the door open, they do not get it--the advice along with the kindness and tact go in one ear and out the other. [and I believe that is why most on here skip that step and revert straight to bluntness] On the other hand, these same people who need the most straightforward blunt advice, are often the most defensive of their actions, and do close the door immediately if they feel criticized, put on the spot, or harassed. So it is a fine line, and especially on message boards communicating without the advantage of body language, so it seems however you walk the line, you never know which side you might fall on.

-Rhea
Posted By: feyleon

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Halo's human
So it is a fine line, and especially on message boards communicating without the advantage of body language, so it seems however you walk the line, you never know which side you might fall on.


This couldn't be more true. My wish for people to not always be so blunt certainly doesn't apply to message boards, emails or chat rooms as definitively as it does in person. It is much easier to misread what someone has written without the advantage of seeing their faces or body language.

A fine line indeed.
Posted By: BellaOctober1

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/10/07 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Halo's human
however,regarding people who need advice the most are the same that when you use kindness and tact, and attempt to keep the door open, they do not get it--the advice along with the kindness and tact go in one ear and out the other.


Might be. But as you say, it doesn't seem to matter how the advise is given, some people just don't get it. And, there's nothing anyone can really do about this problem. My personal mission here is to learn, share and educate (if I can) and if I run into a brick wall, I walk around and move on.

Originally Posted By: Halo's human
On the other hand, these same people who need the most straightforward blunt advice, are often the most defensive of their actions, and do close the door immediately if they feel criticized, put on the spot, or harassed.


Yep. But, don't you find that if you're kinder in your responses, people are less likely to feel critized, put on the spot or harassed?
I know I can hear/accept just about anything if someone shows me kindness (keeps my ego in tact) with the words they use. I admire people who can do this,..so much. Their patience and time makes me feel like I'm dealing with a wise person.



Posted By: Lucy's Mom

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/11/07 01:28 AM

This ended up being a really interesting thread.

Hi Ali G - I Love that quote - it is from Mark Twain. I always use that quote to describe myself to people now...lol. I am tickled you use it...I don't know how to do that to my signature-I'll have to learn.

Thanks MyToos...even though I don't interact with any of you personally a lot, I really feel as though I DO know you through the way you react to topics and how you write. I am fascinated by the way we all "do" this. smile

Anyway, Teri, your point above was kind of what I was trying to say...I love this board but I have a very open mind...some people, especially those that are insecure can get really defensive when we reply strongly...JMO

I remember when I first joined that Charlie said something really encouraging to me to the tune of "you will do great"...I don't even recall why, but it set me up to feel as though I could...because before Lucy, my largest bird was my BCC and they are way easier - take my word for it!

Peace,
Karen, Lucy and Pina
Posted By: robbieh

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/11/07 03:50 AM

This board is very special. I stopped posting a lot a year ago or so when there was a lot going on in my life but I couldn't stop reading. The moderators do an excellent job of making sure the philosophy is stuck to. And there have been times in the past where people really put the mods through the ringer!

I don't think I could have survived my first breeding season with a G2 had it not been for the great information found here. And that information sometimes comes at a price that hurts the human, but is good for the birds. And that's what this board is all about. I do get surprised at times about the bluntness, but I was raised by Southerners so the comments about the South make sense to me! My parents have ways of making you feel good that you're a complete idiot, but that's for another board.

Robbie
Posted By: Lucy's Mom

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/11/07 03:57 AM

Robbieh-

Funny!!!!!!! Thanks!

I hope everyone 'got' my idea about this post. It was to try and get a little conversation going between myself and those who post here often (or read here often, as I do) and introduce myself after I felt that I had enough knowledge to talk and not make a fool of myself.

I appreciate you all.

Thanks all,
Karen, Lucy and Pina
Posted By: TINKERBELLA

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/13/07 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: ALI_G
i appreciate the "blunt and frank" answers i recieve here.even when i am told i done the wrong thing. i think we all learn from this board. no one is perfect , but what help would it be if you guys only told people what they wanted to hear. none. so thank you all for the help. i practically live on here. i want what is best for my bird. that is why i want the truth.
I so agree with you . I came here to learn more about my bird and other birds for that matter . I tried to educate myself before I got my bird , however , I was given miss information from the place I got her .. long story .. I so appreciate everyones willingness to share their knoweldge and concern . These birds are our life and part of our family .. to me I want the truth , honesty and clairty ..
Posted By: Elfhome

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/13/07 04:45 PM

The BIG issue with people who don't listen and do the wrong thing is this (IMHO):
- If you are blunt they accuse you of being rude and think you are a nasty piece of dirt they stepped on
- If you are truthful they hate your information because it is not giving them a apt on the back for everything they do
- If you are too kind they don't listen anyway or don't take your seriously
- No matter how you word your post they won't listen anyways, so it's a waste of typing.

Plus of course thereis a huge difference between being a push-over, being blunt, and being rude. With some people phrasing kindly CAN get back theridefenses, so to speak. BUT they may not take you seriously either. People who care for their birds might get a little upset if you seem too blunt but they'll get over it, and listen to your message not the messenger (your post). The people who need a heavy dose of reality sometimes need straight-up bluntness or they won't take you seriously. So there is indeed a fine line but I find wording things carefully, but still being blunt and to the point works fairly well.
Posted By: Crystal H

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/14/07 05:43 AM

robbieh,
I completely know where you're coming from with the southern "tact", I'm from the south myself. I have been through many threads on this forum, and I have agreed with some, and disagreed with others. I tend to be very open minded, and look at other's views to see where they're coming from. I think that some on here take a radical view of things...and just like anything else, there is a place for it. That place is this forum.
Let me give an example...
I worked for a Christian organization, that is widely known as a gym, daycare, etc. Not sure if I can mention names on here, but there was a song about it once, by the Village People. On with the story...
A mother complained because we would pray before we would play, eat, or anything else for that matter.
The gentleman she was complaining to was one of those southern folks I was discussing earlier.
He simply stated, "Ma'am, God is why we are here. We will not stop, explain, nor apologize for praying to Him."
The key being...WE WILL NOT apologize.
I think if you really believe in something, as most folks on this board do, you shouldn't feel the need to explain, stop, or apologize for what you believe in. THAT is what makes your message muted, and causes others to second guess sometimes.
Posted By: BellaOctober1

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/14/07 06:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Crystal H
Let me give an example...
A mother complained because we would pray before we would play, eat, or anything else for that matter. The gentleman she was complaining to was one of those southern folks I was discussing earlier. He simply stated, "Ma'am, God is why we are here. We will not stop, explain, nor apologize for praying to Him."
The key being...WE WILL NOT apologize.


This is a great post! I see exactly where you're coming from. In a situation like this, it's actually a bit humorous that this woman thought it was okay to complain about the prayer before indulging. How funny!!

I think though, that what we forget is that if we want to change the world, we can't do it with blunt, unkind, brain-to-key-board thoughts. We can say what needs to be said without callousness. For pity sake. Look at our state of world affairs. How much of what is happening in IRAQ has got to do with words? 'Nuff said there.

When I came onboard here, I was petrified of what I may encounter. I am a new U2 owner, and I never saw this board until after I rescued Martini. I just knew, after 2 weeks of research, I would be a great parrot caretaker. This board taught me so-o much, but I would have been outta here if I felt the slightest bit of attack.

My point is: How good would that have been for Martini? Refocusing the main topic to a human emotion might have made me leave this board and not know how to give Martini the home, care, patience and understanding she so deserves.

I thought the bird is why we're here. And since the bird is cared for by a human, I just have to wonder if it wouldn't be wise to be a direct, "compassionate" teacher?
Teaching isn't easy, but what a beautiful effort.
Posted By: Courtenay

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/14/07 07:26 AM

I have to agree with Elfhome. We've had several people jump on the boards here and they
1) Refuse to read and acknowledge the agenda
2) Defend their actions for "buying" a bird
3) Ask questions about basic husbandry, which leads me to believe that they did absolutely no research
4) Are disrespectful towards members that are trying to help
5) They believe they are right about everything and will stop at nothing to get the answer they want, even if it may be wrong

It just saddens me that I'm going to be a veterinarian soon and it will become a bigger problem frown
Posted By: spinnyspoo

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/14/07 09:35 AM

Courtenay, it won't become a bigger problem, it's just that you'll be seeing it more. On the other hand you will have a remarkable opportunity for educating the great unwashed. you'll still have the people who won't listen to anything, but there will be lots of people you can teach, guide etc...
Posted By: ALI_G

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/14/07 09:40 PM

i know i was on another bird forum and there is a girl on there with a too. she asks for advice but fires back everytime she's offered any. it's kinda crazy.if she thinks she knows it all why is she on the forum and even more so why is she asking for advice? i think she just wants someone to agree with and tell her what she wants to hear.
Posted By: wishfull

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/15/07 03:54 AM

Oh boy, I remember so well my early days here smile Many were kind, yet occasionally I got my butt kicked. I know now, I didnt truly grasp the agenda, not purposely, but cos of wide eyed blinkered inocense I think. I do believe that now, OCCASIONALLY, I can add something of value (not always) but it was the butt slaps, accompanied by the gentle warmth combined, that helped me grow. I think if you are genuine, and maybe even throw the odd confused and hurt tantrum, but KEEP coming back to learn, and eventually share valuable experience, you will only gain benifit from here, and the rare few boards like it. One thing experience here (negative or otherwise) has taught me, is that if you are genuine, not particularly knowledgeable in avian expertise, but genuine as a person, you will fit in. And slapped butts dont sting forever! smile
Posted By: Lucy's Mom

Re: A note about "Negativity" - 12/19/07 01:52 AM

Thanks wishfull!

I agree.
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