Mytoos

What type of behavior is this?

Posted By: GregM

What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 12:08 AM

I have Buddy (MSC2) since Sept. 08 and he is about 2 years old...I know, still on our honeymoon. With all that I have read here I have been dreading sexual maturity and behavioral changes.

I noticed yesterday that after dinner, when Buddy is usually mellow, he started doing a lot of what I believe is called "displaying"; crest up, wings held away from body, rocking back and forth...even galloping across the table surface. He was a bit nippy as well when handling him and pinched me a little too hard, drawing blood...not an attack, just a nip...

Tonite I worked hard to change things up and distract him with some new toys after dinner...he was a little better and distracted, but did display during his approach to the toys and was aggressive...almost seemed to attack the toys...not his usual approach to play...even a little hissing, which he never does....

Is this just a mood or does displaying signify anything?

Posted By: Charlie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 12:42 AM

Quote:
not his usual approach to play...even a little hissing, which he never does....


With all due respect, Greg, I don't think you've had Buddy long enough to know much about him and especially at that age. Displaying is a typical activity for most cockatoos although they are quite individual in their particular practices. One particular "good point" to this type of activity is that only comfortable and confident cockatoos engage in it. A happy cockatoo is a raucous, loud and gregarious animal. It's a paradox because the same activities that they finally feel safe enough to pursue are, many times, the same activities that find them looking for another home.

In our home, we learned to participate in these activities and even encourage them several times a day. They are a great source of exercise and it takes a little air out of their sails so that they relax more after. Always have a very healthy respect for an amped up cockatoo, however, because they can become quite wild in their behaviors. Never get within striking distance and that is further than you might think! LOL

Once again, it is probably too soon to be making generalizations about Buddy's behavior in less than a year. You will learn so much more as you go. I hope he's just a heanlthy, well adjusted cockatoo! Other members have been through this stage and it will be interesting to see some more replies.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 01:01 AM

We also do this numerous times per day and as Charlie said we keep out of striking distance! Not that Cassie is attacking per say just that she gets a little too rambunctious and beaky. She loves to attack her toys and has a grand time doing so in full display. Here she is playing on the floor with her toys. When she gets this active is when we have to be careful. She has a blast and burns up alot of energy doing so. Lots of screaming and chattering during this.
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb79/BE2Cassie/?action=view&current=85654B2B.jpg
Nancy
Posted By: GregM

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Charlie
[quote] In our home, we learned to participate in these activities and even encourage them several times a day. They are a great source of exercise and it takes a little air out of their sails so that they relax more after.


Thats funny as I usually discourage getting Buddy all wild as he is more prone to nip...maybe hs is actually achieving a new level of comfort after 9 months...

I did notice he was preening excessively so despite the fact I showered him yesterday morning I did so again tonite and it calmed him down...both his behavior and preening...

Would "beak bashing" against objects also be considered raucous, natural, Too behavoir?

Cassie is a pip! There is a BE2 in the pet store I get my fish food in and I stop in and play with her whenever I go in...what a character! Are BE2 know for their personalitys?
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 10:09 AM

Yup beak bashing is tons of fun also! We have one of those folding oak TV Tables that Cassie loves to run around the edge while tapping the top and whacking the sides of at full speed. I keep waiting for her to miscalculate and crash but so far she keeps her footing. As with all toos BE2s can be the energizer bunnies of the too world while others are laid back and quiet. Cassie is an energizer bunny! Constant motion and activity. Although if she meets a stranger she becomes shy and quiet. Nancy
Posted By: GregM

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: BE2Cassie
As with all toos BE2s can be the energizer bunnies of the too world while others are laid back and quiet.


Yes, that is a perfect analogy...high energy! I also noticed that the feathers on the BE2 I visit feel flatter and smoother than my MSC2..is that just my imagination, too much powder down or is the BE2 plummage different?
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/19/09 09:42 PM

I haven't noticed if her plummage is different from other toos. I have noticed depending on her mood is how she holds her feathers. Sometimes very tight to the body and at others much looser and fluffy if that makes sense. When she's excited she either holds them tight or they are all standing on end increasing her size ten fold. I've also noticed the more showers she has the softer she is.
If she goes a couple of days without a shower the dust builds up and the water will bead like a ducks back and just roll off of her.
Nancy
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/21/09 07:26 AM

Boy do I need help. I have a Muloccan, 28 years old. I have had him for 25 years. I got him when I was very young(13yo) and was working at a pet store. He was miserable and I couldn't bear to watch him be teased by all the customers and children passing by.(He was not friendly and never failed to hiss at people)He quickly became attached to me, giving kisses(which he would never do to anyone else) I eventually talked my parents into letting me have him, and well, we are now in this situation.He has begun to self mutilate. We had an episode of plucking about 8 years ago, when I left home and was living in apartment and unable to take him. I then bought a house and brought him with me and plucking stopped. Now he has bypassed plucking and gone straight to mutilating. I am beside myself watching my poor baby mutilate and do not know what to do. I have seen the collars and have to admit, I think they are cruel. I think,maybe, what has started this was a combo of things. First, over the last several months, his screeching has become constant. Not your happy loud noises we all know so well, but blood curdling screeching. I hollar at him to stop when I can take no more. Then the last 2 weeks, my 17yo son, who he loves, has been working out of town 4 days a week. Is it just coincidence that his mutilating started when my son left? We have had 2 mutilaing incidents, one last week and now today. At what age do muloccans sexual mature? Does he need a mate? Can I rent one for the week?LOL I would love any advice if someone has any ideas.Sorry for the book, but I thought his history may be of importance. Sorry, I am new to this message board thing, and am having a hard time with abbreviations. What is BE2 and MSC2?
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/21/09 08:27 AM

The very first thing you need to do is have your bird seen by an avian vet for an exam and complete blood work up!

Your bird is sexually mature, and has been for quite some time - typically the onset of puberty is 5-8 yrs old for the larger, Indonesian cockatoos.

Once any underlying medical conditions have been eliminated, you can then reasonably assume that the mutilation is behavorial and begin exploring the why's and how to correct them. A bird that is self-mutilating needs to be under the close supervision of an avian vet. Please don't delay. Open wounds can lead to infection and must be treated.

As far as your general questions? A BE2 is a Bare-eyed cockatoo and and MSC2 is a medium sulphur crested. A Moluccan is an M2.

B&G - Blue and Gold Macaw
BC - Blue Crown Conure
BE2 - Bare Eyed Cockatoo
BFA - Blue Front Amazon
BP2 - Black Palm Cockatoo
BSL - Blue Streak Lory
C2 - Citron Cockatoo
CAG - Congo African Grey
CM - Catalina Macaw
D2 - Ducorps Cockatoo
DYH - Double Yellow Head Amazon
E2 - Eleanora Cockatoo
Ekkie - Eclectus
G2 - Goffins Cockatoo
GC(C) - Green Cheeked Conure
GCC - Gold Capped Conure
GCP - Grey Cheeked Parakeet
GE - Grand Eclectus
GSC - Greater Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
GW - Green Wing Macaw
HM - Hahns Macaw
HMC - Half Moon Conure
HYM - Hyacinth Macaw
IRN - Indian Ringneck Parakeet
Keet - Parakeet
LCA - Lilac Crowned Amazon
LSC - Lessor Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
M2 - Moluccan Cockatoo MBC - Maroon Belled Conure
MGM - Miligold Macaw
MM - Military Macaw
MM2 - Major Mitchell (Leadbeater) Cockatoo
MRHA - Mexican Red Head Amazon
MSC - Medium Sulphur Crested Cockatoo
OWA - Orange Winged Amazon
PC - Painted Conure
RB2 - Rose Breasted Cockatoo
RLA - Red Lored Amazon
RM - Ruby Macaw
RSE - Red Sided Eclectus
RV2 - Red Vented Cockatoo
SIE - Soloman Island Eclectus
SM - Scarlet Macaw
T2 - Triton Cockatoo
TAG - Timneh African Grey
Tiel - Cockatiel
Too/2 - Cockatoo
U2 - Umbrella Cockatoo
Umbie - Umbrella Cockatoo
VE - Vosmaeri's Eclectus
WFA - White Fronted Amazon
WF - White Faced Cockatiel
YCM - Yellow Collared Macaw
YNA - Yellow Naped Amazon
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/23/09 06:14 AM

thank you for the info. I appreciate it. I have an appointment to see a avian vet. I see that yours has a sweater on. what stops her from chewing it off?
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/23/09 06:30 AM

Getting a functional sweater that worked for Noelle was trial and error. On this thread you can see the design the works for her. It did take alot of trial and error and attempts at keeping it on her with snap tape and velcro failed. After working with her an making lots of deposits into her trust account with me, I began hand-sewing the sweaters on her. On this thread you will find a short video of that.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=202629&page=20

I would not recommend that, unless you have a bird that is as trusting and cooperative as Noelle is. But for us, it worked beautifully. She's been dress free for over a week now (after 6 months) and not harming herself - so far so good and for each day that passes, I am thankful for. I do not believe that she is permanently out of the sweaters, but am happy for everyday that she is and doesn't harm herself. I alternate between conditioning her skin with pure Aloe and Emu oil. All of this should be discussed with your avian vet. Let us know how the appointment goes and I wish you and your bird nothing but the best.
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/23/09 03:05 PM

Oh EM~sweater free,yeah!!!!
Stephaniew, yes~avian vet right away!!! Does he have lots to Chew, getting enough sleep? Other home changes? (location,pets,sounds,diet, stress).
The vet must do a full work up.
Please keep us posted and what is his name???
Tania
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 01:33 AM

His name is charlie. We have had changes in the house. We added a ferret just before christmas, but I don't think he minds him. The ferret(smokey) actually got into his cage and was teasing charlie by licking his feet. Charlie, ever so gently, picked up the ferret by his head and relocated him, multiple times before I could get to cage. I went through a divorce new years eve, but he is happy about that. Husband was a jerk and the two of them did not get along. I personally think that my son working out of town 4 days a week has a lot to do with it. Charlie loves him and ironically, this began after the first week my son left. I also have to admit, and rest assured, the guilt is killing me, but he has been screaming, not happy screaming, but frustrated screamimg and I am truly at my mental end with it. I started yelling at him to stop and decided I couldn't take myself yelling at him all the time, so I started spraying him with a water bottle. I honesty thought it was the most humane and least offensive approach to the problem. I never would have done it if I thought I would mentally harm him. He stopped screaming, but at what expense. I have also been working more since divorce, in attempts to maintain lifestyle and home, so he is alone more often. I am wondering if I deserve to have him at this point. All I do is cry over him, but that is not helping him. At what point does someone consider finding another home. He has been in my life for 25 years and I cant imagine life without him, but it is not about me now, I need to do what is best for him. If all tests come back negative, that means he is so unhappy here, that he wants to hurt himself. Could it be any worse. I'm not sure I can watch him tear himself apart much longer. I found myself thinking about euthenasia because I was reading somewhere that once a bird starts mutilating and can not be stopped, it is the only humane thing to do. Do you guys believe that?
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 02:22 AM

First off, the encounter that the bird and your ferret had was very dangerous - for both. The saliva of mammals can result in serious problems for your bird, including death. And Charie picking the ferret up by the head - well I don't even need to elaborate on what coul have happened.

Please, please, please read the articles posted in the Applied Behavior forum. You should not be yelling at your bird, and squirting him with a water bottle is punishment. Nothing responds to punishment in a positive manner.

You should not be watching him tear himself apart, which is why getting him under the strict supervision of an avian vet is a must.

You have alot of soul searching to do right now and decide if you and your lifestyle are able to provide Charlie with the life that he deserves. A mutilating bird does not necessarily equate to an unhappy bird. It's a symptom of captivity.

Self-mutilation can be stopped, but it depends on many variables, and yes, once it begins, unless the cycle can be stopped quickly, it may likely be something that you will deal with for the rest of his life. A bird with a long history of mutilation, such as my Noelle, is not likely to completley stop, forever.

As for euthanizing Charlie because he is a mutilator, no I do not agree that it is the humane thing to do. There are many other things that can be done to protect the bird from harming himself. And honestly, I feel that euthanizing Charlie is not only inhumane, but taking the easy way out and relieving yourself of the commitment you made to this bird 25 years ago. For better, for worse. If you do not feel that you can cope, then yes, perhaps Charlie is better off in a home that is prepared and equipped to help him, and most of all understand and love him for who and what he is. Not everyone can deal day to day with these types of issues. Ending a precious life because it is too much for you to bear, is just plain wrong.

I adopted Noelle 6 months ago this Friday, knowing that she was a mutilator. She came to me with a 2 cm hole in her chest. It meant frequent trips to our avian vet (and yes lots of money) and quite frankly, my heart broke for her daily. Still does sometimes. She is being treated holistically, required a major correction in her diet, and lots of daily enrichment and she requires constant supervision. Would I ever dream of euthanizing her because of self-mutilation. I can't even comprehend the thought. Look into the eyes of this beautiful, gentle and trusting soul and you tell me - is euthanization the answer?



No, euthanization it is not the humane thing to do.

Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 02:54 AM

Janet has said it all in her post, which I agree with. You have some very difficult decisions to make. One thing I would like to add though is that the ferret is a carnivore/hunter. His natural instincts are to hunt and eat small mammals and birds. Don't let the size difference fool you, your ferret can kill your M2 in short order.
Nancy
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 06:38 AM

I just got home from seeing an avian vet and now feel worse than ever. She DID NOT run any tests to rule out disease. She said that she is positive it is behavioral and that she feels I should collar him immediately. She wanted to keep him for several days to monitor collor placement and admitted it can be an ugly site, sometimes causing birds to throw themselves against the cage,etc. I feel that is the worst form of torture there could be. She wants me to change diet of fresh fruits and veggies to pellet food immediately and I am not sure how to make the change without causing more stress to charlie. I stopped and bought different pelleted foods, 3 of them being zupreem. (different flavors) Charlie is now eating people food, whatever is for dinner and then fresh fruit and veggies several times a day, along with bird food containing dried fruits and I know, the big no no, peanuts and other nuts. Do I just take that away and force him to eat pellets??? The vet does not believe in Haldol,(which was a treatment I read on internet somewhere) but wants me to give him Benadryl. She also does not believe in euthanasia, at this point. But she did agree that changing homes, after this amount of time would be devastating and probably cause too much stress for him to handle. Let me just clear up the ferret incident, because it was an accident, not an intentional act and we know ferrets are houdini's. It was a mistake and has not happened again. I was simply amazed at the gentle nature in which charlie handled the situation, as we all know could have been a nightmare instantly. All of this happened in several seconds, long enough for me to hear a rucus and run out to the kitchen to see what was happening. Charlie was missing a bar in upper part of cage that the ferret discovered and has since been fixed. Believe it or not, I am not an irresponsible pet owner by any means. I have dedicated my life to the welfare of animals and have done more rescues with cats and dogs than I could ever count. I got charlie when I was a child and trust me, as an adult, would not ever purchase such an animal due to the amount of care required. Not that I am lazy or from lack of commitment, but after educating myself, I realize that these birds need someone who is home during the day first of all and with someone who is completely dedicated full time to them. I am a nurse and work long hours, more since divorce and that is obviously impacting him badly. Like I said before, I didnt mean to yell at him, but one can only take so much of the screaming before you go crazy. I spend every minute I am home with charlie, trying to stimulate him and give him attention, but I can not quit my job because he is not getting enough attention( not to sound crass,but we all need a place to live). I know now not to ever yell at him again and feel so horribly guilty about it, I can not even begin to tell you. The reason I am on this site is for education and to try to learn everything I can to make this right. I know you have probably heard the worst of worst cases, but I feel I am at least trying and not sticking him in a dark closet like I have read so much about. Charlie is part of the family and is truly loved, but I am not perfect,obviously. I did not like the comment about euthanasia being the easy road for me, I have read multiple articles on the subject and is exactly why I asked your opinion about it. Once again, I read articles that say euthanasia is the only humane thing to do with recurrent mutilator's or else they will suffer horrible pain and usually end up bleeding to death. I know that before I will collar him, I would probably euthanize him. That has to be the upmost torturous thing anyone could do and I would never allow the vet to do so. Talk about being captive.I did read the article in applied behavior forum and is what made me realize that no matter how frustrated I am with him, I need to walk away before i hollar at him. This vet said I should never leave his cage open without supervision and yet I read so much about open cage policy. Does that mean someone is always home during this open cage policy? I really was not happy with the vet visit and honestly, very disappointed with the information given. I have received much better guidance on this site than from the vet. Do you think I just found a poor vet and should find another? She was the only avian specialist in las vegas that i could find, or the only one that came up on the internet as a specialist. What do you mean holistically, the same as holistic for humans. What are some of your holistic approaches? And what do you mean daily enrichment? I am sorry if I seem "stupid", for a lack of better terminology, I am just completely frustrated. I am willing to do whatever is within my control to make things better and will not give up until some solution is reached. I thank you for all of your time and wonderful advice and I do truely appreciate all that you are doing for charlie and I.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:06 AM

Hi Stephnie. I know you have alot of questions and are looking for answers to very complex problem - self-mutilation. I am going to keep this response short because it is very late here and bird:30 comes early around here.

I too am very surprised that the AV you did not run any diagnostic testing to rule out any underlying medical conditions. That is huge red flag to me!!! I know we have some members in your area - can anyone make any recommendtions??? Also here is link to The AAV that will give you listing of members in your area. http://www.aav.org/search/index.php

Here is link to my Noelle's opening thread here, which will explain some of the treatment plan my AV and I have done.

http://www.mytoos.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=188957#Post188957

Hope it helps. Euthanizing him is not an option, IMO. There are other alternatives.
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:33 AM

Ok through so many tears I am writing this plea to you stephanie....please do not put this poor bird down without a fighting chance. Please OUR Poster Bird Noelle is living proof how their lives can change with the right person.Janet has done a wonderful job with her vet to make Noelle enjoy her life again and really be one of the best companions and loving birds there are.

Seriously if you don't think you can do please there are other options. There is a great Sanctuary near you.Best Friends Animal Sanctuary that would be willing to take him and give it their everything. You could I am sure visit him there and check in on his progress. There are many members here who could try and network him to try and get him to someone who is willing to fight for this poor guys life. I know you think it is too stressful but really it isn't. Maybe a collar isn't what he needs but one of the dresses that Janet and another member here designed together would be...Please Please PLEASE don't put him down like this.

I am sure Janet would graciously send a few to you if you wanted to try them out.Please do not do this. I beg you.
Posted By: Charlie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:36 AM

That is a red flag! I would get a second opinion. Here are all the current listed avian veterinarians in Nevada:

Nevada
89117 KOLMSTETTER, CHRISTINE M., DVM Las Vegas A
89121 MOUNTIN, JENNIFER, DVM Las Vegas A*
89121 KENTON, BRYAN, DVM Las Vegas A
89121 HAUCK, PATRICK W., DVM Las Vegas A
89123 CACIOPPO, DOMINIC F., DVM Las Vegas A
89128 BORN, VERNON, Rev. Las Vegas B
89131 GORMAN, SHARON L., DVM Las Vegas A
89502 COCANOUR, ROBERT A., DVM Reno A
89503 CONNELLY, CATHY, MS, DVM Reno A*
89503 DITSWORTH, MARK, DVM Reno A
89503 EUGENIO, CHRIS, DVM Reno A
89503 HESS, DAWN D., DVM Reno A

Here's a listing of all members of the AAV. Each state in the United States is listed in case you need to look in an adjacent state.

Active Member List - Association of Avian Veterinarians

I hope some nearby members can give you some feedback on their personal vets in that area. I hope you will attempt to relax around Charlie as he will pick up on your tension and you have had some. This is not easy for either of you and you both have had to make drastic life changes. This is hard for cockatoos that are used to a stable life. I hope we are able to help you and I wish the very best for you and Charlie.
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 08:38 AM

Kolmstetter is who i went to. Just so people know, I was not impressed by her. Maybe she was having a bad day, it was closing time and they worked me in, but really?? Of course I will not make any rash decisions. He's been apart of me for a long time. I tried the benadryl and he didnt pick tonight. I just bought every toy petsmart and petco make and will alternate to maybe help stimulate and keep interested. My son and I are taking shifts to ensure he is not left alone and he is sleeping peacefully now. He is making his happy noises tonight that i havent heard in 2 weeks.yeah!! I know i am not out of the woods but hope we are starting the healing process. You guys are the best and I really appreciate everyone's concern. I will keep u updated and am always looking for ideas and advice. Any suggestions on keeping him busy and stimulated???
Posted By: Cidsa

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 10:10 AM

Unfortunately, not all vets in the AAV are good. Since you really didn't like this one, I would just go to another if possible. Don't stick with a lousy vet when you need serious help like you do. You definitely need to get tests done to rule out any diseases.

The bigger chains don't always have the best toys, are you able to order online at all? There are some really great toys, like the ones from http://www.motherpluckinbirdtoys.com/
I would definitely keep a supply of wooden toys and foraging toys. MPBT has one item called the SS Spiral, it's a stainless steel wire with an acrylic ball on the end. You can load these up with wood and even food (after washing of course). You don't have to use any fancy wood, just get untreated pine from home depot. Doing this definitely will save some money.

As for the food, if you feel the change is upsetting him, try slowing it down a little. Getting him onto a healthy diet is definitely important, but forcing it could go badly. Definitely cut down on the peanuts and some of the people food (bread is one they shouldn't really have). As for the pellets, I use Harrisons myself and my birds do very well on it. I believe others are good as long as they aren't colored and don't smell sickly sweet (like Tropican).

Good luck with Charlie, I hope you can get him on the road to healing soon.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 11:16 AM

Stephanie I hope that you don't think that I was attacking you about the ferret incident. I realized it was an accident. I've worked with a number of ferrets over the past few years and have been amazed at their ability to escape and even more so on their ability to get through tiny cracks. A closed door with a small gap is no problem for them to squirm through. I board ferrets in my home and have to keep them in a seperate room with no gaps under the main door. I had one that could squeeze under one closet door that had a 1/2 inch gap under it.
If you should decide that a sanctuary is best Janny suggested Best Friends in Kanab. Here is a link to their bird sanctuary.
http://www.bestfriends.org/atthesanctuary/animals/birds.cfm
Some other great toys that are inexpensive include food grade boxes tied to the side of the cage filled with paper, wood, treats, raffia and small foot toys. I do this daily with Cassie along with paper bags filled with a treat. With the bags you can take a lunch bag put a treat in it and fold it up then put it in another bag. Keep placing it in bags until full and then put in cage. I hang them from the top of the cage. Artichokes make a great toy. I poke a whole in the stem of a large raw artichoke and hang from the top of the cage. Coffee filters are great for making large flowers that can be attached to the side of the cage. You poke two holes through the bottom of about 12 filters then fluff each filter, looks like a large peony. Needless to say when I get home there is about a foot of torn paper and cardboard on the bottom of her cage. Cassie has been over preening lately from a heavy molt and I've been loading her cage up every morning in an attempt to keep her busy. It's helped to distract her. I also turn the tv on to cartoons for her or pop in one of her videos. She has been on neurontin and metacam now for over a month. We're fortunate so far and she has only gone after some of the smaller blood feathers. She also gets a shower daily with aloe and water 1 part aloe to 10 parts water ratio and she gets a warm cup of chamomile tea every night before bed. Her vet doesn't believe in using a collar unless it's an emergency. She has given me one, a soft collar with strict orders not to use it unless Cassie is bleeding and needs to be transported to the office. Hopefully some of our members will come on from the Vegas area with suggestions for vets in the area. You may also want to give Best Friends a call and ask for their recommendation on a vet in Vegas. I'm sure they know of one and most likely use one there.
Best of luck to you and Charlie.
Nancy
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 03:40 PM

I pray this is a turning point!!!! Foraging toys are great. He should have at least one toy of each type;
foraging
climbing
chewing
foot
preening
I am appalled by that vet! No tests??? Pellets only??? Sounds like time for her to retire...
Keep us posted and you can do this!!! Parronting has its hard times for sure!!!
Tania
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:00 PM

I am wondering if you would mind posting a picture of Charlie so we can see and maybe understand more of what you are dealing with?

I am glad you are thinking this through. That has made me feel so relieved. Please keep trying for his sake.I will be keeping you and Charlie in my thoughts and prayers. Like I said before if you want to try one of those great dresses all you have to do is ask for EchosMom's email address and I know she would ship one out to you. They are not restrictive like a collar and still keep them very safe.
Posted By: GregM

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By: EchosMom
Look into the eyes of this beautiful, gentle and trusting soul and you tell me - is euthanization the answer?


EM, you are killing me...that photos is remarkably expressive...her eyes are the windows into her soul...its tragic to think she too could have faced an uncertain future had you not adopted...
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/24/09 07:28 PM

Yes, I would be more than happy to send a sweater for Charlie. I am also open to speaking with your privately, to share my experiences and life with Noelle, and offer you moral support. As Jan said, if you would like to open up the lines of communication just say so on the thread, and one of the Administrators will provide our email addresses to one another via email.
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/25/09 10:16 AM

Em, I would love to open communication, please. I am desperate. I came home today to blood everywhere and now he is picking his back. No open areas on back that I can see, but there will be,I am sure. I must be doing something wrong. He is not abused like these stories I am reading and yet he is so unhappy. I dont know that he will make it long enough for the sweater to get here, but I would love to try it. I will pay for any shipping, materials, or should I try to make one in the mean time? Maybe we can talk tomorrow. Anyone else who wants to call is more than welcome. I need all the moral support I can get at this point. I got online and looked at best friends and am impressed. I have only two concerns with them. Would they use a collar on him and how do they screen the homes that they adopt to. I can not bear the thought that charlie could end up in a worse or another unsuitable home. I have not given up, but he is worse and I am going to have to make a decision quicker than I anticipated. I at least want to know my options in order to make the best and most educated decision. Do you guys really feel that a change in home after this many years wouldn't be overwhelming?? OMG, it is going to kill me to give him up, but I have to do what is best for him if it comes to that. Please do not think I am selfish if I chose to do that. But apparently I can not give him what he needs.I have tried so hard in the last two weeks and thought we were going to head in right direction. I know this is a lifelong challenge and am not expecting an overnight change. I can post pictures sat night when my son gets home from work. I dont think I am computer literate enough to get them online. I do, however, know how to email them. EM, I wish you lived closer and you could take him. I probably would not hesitate if I knew one of you guys had him. Let's talk tomorrow, it is late here and I have to get up in 5 hours. Am I not supposed to put personal info on here? Like phone number or email? Thanks again guys, for everything. This website has restored my faith in humanity.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/25/09 06:02 PM

You've got email Stephanie (the one that you used to register your account here). Hang in there!! Also, if I were you I would give Best Friends a call and schedule an on-site visit or perhaps one of their outreach coordinators can pay a visit to you and Charlie. But let's explore some ideas and see if we can't keep Charlie and you together. We'll talk more about that.

P.S. No we do not allow the posting of private contact information on the board for the protection of all our members. The staff will assist in opening up communication with permissions given on both sides and with established members only.
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/25/09 07:02 PM

To answer your question about rehoming....For some it is much needed when sometimes life just can't go the way we want it too. Normally we at Mytoos try to get our members to make some changes and try to work things out in their homes before exploring other options like Rescues,Sanctuary,or another home.You home and family have been through so many changes and is very high stress right now and we need to start there.These birds really can pick up on stress and don't know how to deal with it so they will get behaviors from frustration.

To give you an example from my own flock...I adopted a little Princess in March,Helen. I adopted her from a friend of mine that has a rescue called Birdline. We had talked about Helen a few times and I felt drawn to her.

Helen had lived with a man that got terminally ill and passed away in his home. He had cut contact off to his friends many months before this so not many knew he was even sick.to make a long story short Helen was left in the home with his deceased body for weeks before someone found them.She was willed to someone who Helen knew from the petstore he had bought her from. It was the lady that hand fed her in the begining.After much effort from my friend at Birdline and the lady who had her Helen was improving but still not to her potential. She was very depressed and just plucked at her feathers and was starting to break them off at the blood supply as well.

She was given to Birdline Rescue and then I agreed to adopt her from there. She was given a clean bill of health to our suprize and went through her quarentine here and fell madly in love with my hubby on site. Now it has flipped and she loves me allot.

Helen is doing MARVELOUS! She is growing the majority of her feathers back and just looking so great.She is a total clown and active and just so full of life. You would never know it is the same bird. I will give you a link or two to have a look at before and after pictures. I have only had her for 4 months too. So sometimes a change in environment is what is needed for them.Helen was never abused either and the lady who had helen willed to her really loved her but it just wasn't what helen needed at the time.

I am not saying you need to rehome Charlie. I would like for you to explore different things and get a good Avian Vet on your side as part of a team with Janet and maybe her vet as well and try to help him. One thing is there is no quick fix. It will take much time and strength but I know you can do it for Charlie or I would not be writing this reply. Try some things and if you choose later to rehome him then that is an option.
Helen Before Picture
Helen After 4 Months

Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/26/09 10:02 PM

For those following Charlie's story I spoke to Stephanie earlier. She has received an avian vet referral from a friend of a friend and is going to try and get Charlie in today. If that vet isn't available she is going to contact her regular vet and Best Friends (who she has already made contact with) to get him in somewhere today. The last vet did not even bandage the wound, which is about the size of 1/2 dollar. Hopefully she can get this boy bandaged and on the road to healing today.

Stephanie, there are many of us here pulling for you and Charlie and will help you get through this!!
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/27/09 05:21 PM

I have not spoken to Stephanie yet, but Stephanie spoke to Best Friends yesterday and I spoke with Rick w/Best Friends this morning. She and Charlie are getting assistance - to what degree we are not sure yet, but help is on the way and that is what is important.

Many thanks to Best Friends from all of us at Mytoos!
Posted By: MissYumYum

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/27/09 05:56 PM

That is great news, Janet!! All my best wishes to Stephanie and Charlie!! Please keep us posted - there are so many of us pulling for you guys!

Annette
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/27/09 08:51 PM

Such a heart breaking story, and again thank goodness for all of you here to help out Stephanie and Charlie. This is another reason why fluff just cant be tolerated. Stephanie and Charlie needed facts and quick help. Please keep us posted, and I will be praying.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/27/09 09:19 PM

I have spoken to Stephanie and she was unable to get Charlie seen by a vet yesterday...hopefully today, maybe. I have seen pictures of Charlie and honestly, he's a mess. Stephanie said she will call me tonight, and I will ask her permission to post them. I just want to double check and make sure I have permission.

Dave from PARS, our very own "macawman" has offered to step up to the plate if we need him. Distance wise it will be much more difficult for him, but we have plans in motion, and a backup. Thank you Dave. You are one of my heroes.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/28/09 02:30 AM

Stephanie and her son are driving Charlie to Best Friend's tonight, and one of their vet tech's (who I believe is our member Parrot Person) is going to treat the wound and wrap Charlie up. Best Friends has also secured a visit for Charlie to see an avian tomorrow.

Thank you Rick, and all the people at Best Friend's!!!! You all are also one of my heroes.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/28/09 07:44 PM

I just got an update from Stephanie. They didn't arrive in the area until 1am so they got a hotel and just arrived at Best Friends. It has been decided that Charlie is staying at BF's until at least Thursday of this week. This will allow time for him to be evaluated by the AV and for his labs to come back.
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/28/09 07:51 PM

What a wonderful group of people, to help out this way. Please let Stephanie know that we are all praying for her and Charlie!
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 06/28/09 08:02 PM

Thank god Charlie is at a place that knows how to help; I am honored to "know" Echosmom, Macawman, and all of you have been so amazing helping Stephanie and Charlie!!!!
Best wishes, thoughts, and prayers for a full and speedy recovery!
Posted By: Jacque

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 02:33 AM

Any news?
Posted By: GregM

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: FeatheredAngels
What a wonderful group of people, to help out this way. Please let Stephanie know that we are all praying for her and Charlie!


+1...I hope they can help them...keep us posted...
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 03:16 AM

Here is the latest update.

Charlie has sepsis, is anemic and is scheduled for surgery on Monday to close his chest wound. They are waiting until Monday to try and rid his body of the raging infection and give his blood count time to rebound.

BF's is working very closely with Stephanie to help her make some necessary changes for Charlie at home, and when he returns home (undetermined time), BF's will pay them weekly visits to monitor Charlie's progress and see how things are going.

Stephanie says his caregiver at BF's says he he is adjusting well, talking to her and contact calling back to the other cockatoos from his quarantine room.

I will have another update on Monday after surgery. Definitely keep the prayers flowing.
Posted By: MissYumYum

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 04:39 AM

Thank you so much for keeping us updated on Charlie, Janet! Poor guy! Of course they are both in my thoughts and prayers! What a wonderful organization BF is to do so much for them! It sounds like Stephanie may be strongly considering keeping Charlie in her home?? They have such a ling history together - I hope they can stay together! Please let her know we are all pulling for her and Charlie!

Annette
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 07:38 AM

I do hope Charlie recovers well.Geez how scary. I am so glad BF's is so able to do the things they are for him. They are such a good resource for those in serious need. All the more reason for me to want to donate to them even more. At least you know for fact it is going to those animals that need it unlike some other organizations who shake hands with the pet trade.

It would be nice for Charlie to remain with his family if they are willing and able to do what is necessary for them but I can also understand if they can't. Times are tough and sometimes we have to do what is best for our companions if we are not able to provide for them. I am just so glad he was saved.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/01/09 10:58 AM

EM thank you for the update on Charlie. Prayers from here as well for a successful surgery and speedy recovery for Charlie. Seems like Best Friends are also the best angels!
Nancy
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/04/09 06:34 PM

Any news? Praying for Charlie and grateful for the wonderful people who have helped him thus far!!
Posted By: Winter's mom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/05/09 05:07 PM

wow. I just read through this entire thread. Now I can't see past the tears. What a wonderful intervention. You guys are amazing and I am proud to say that I have contact (even though it's cyberspace)I feel sooo much better knowing that I have this kind of experience and knowledge at my fingertips. Such complicated souls require complicated care. Thanks you guys. I hope there is someway, someday I can pay it forward a little bit more.
Cheryl
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/05/09 05:21 PM

I did get a brief update from BF's just letting me know that Charlie was going to be staying w/them for recuperation, but I have not spoken to Stephanie.

Surgery is tomorrow, so please keep the prayers flowing for Charlie.
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/05/09 07:22 PM

Thanks EM for the update. I sure hope he makes the surgery ok. I will be keeping this guy in my prayers as long as it takes. Charlie has touched my heart for sure.
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/05/09 09:16 PM

Praying here for the little guy!
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/05/09 11:12 PM

Lots of prayers from here as well. I really hope he does well, poor guy!
Nancy
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 04:44 PM

Charlie's surgery has been postponed while they continue antibiotic injections to clear the infection. As of now it has not been rescheduled. He is responding well to his caregiver and is stepping up for her (something he would not do w/Stephanie) and she is able to give him his daily injections. Charlie is also seen by BF's vet daily.

Stephanie cannot say enough good things about BF's and says that their faciliity is absolutely awesome. While she hopes that someday Charlie will return home, she knows that he is in the best possible place he can be right now. BF's definitely saved Charlie's life!

I'll keep everyone updated as I hear more.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 05:32 PM

Thanks for the update, I've been thinking of him since yesterday. Hope they can clear up the infection quickly.
Nancy
Posted By: Brandy's mom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 05:35 PM

What a blessing BF's has been for Charlie and Stephanie. I hope they both come through this with excellent results. Stephanie thanks for keeping EM updated and EM, thanks for keeping us updated. Hopes and prayers for both.
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 06:13 PM

Yes, thank you so much for the update EM. We will continue to keep him in our prayers here.
Posted By: Jacque

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 07:06 PM

Well, I know where my extra donation money will be going from now on. Thank you for the update...I can't get this story out of my mind.
Posted By: Cleo's Mom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 09:28 PM

Awesome to witness such rapid response to Stephanie and Charlie's situtation. I'm continually amazed at the lengths all you wonderful people will go for a bird in need. Prayers for Charlie and Stephanie.
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/07/09 10:15 PM

Thanks so much for the update EM....you did awsome in getting this guy some help with BF's.
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/08/09 02:11 PM

Sending best thoughts and prayers for Charlie and Stephanie still!!!
Posted By: Jacque

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/15/09 06:50 PM

Any updates? this story has really sunk into my psyche......
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/15/09 09:26 PM

No updates as of yet. I have called inquiring, but thus far I have not heard back from Stephanie. As soon as I hear anything I will let everyone know.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/17/09 01:40 AM

Update from Stephanie:

Charlie had surgery today and came through with flying colors. Stephanie has plans to go and visit him next weekend. He may be able to come home as early as week after next, but Stephanie is still undecided. Her son will be home in 3-4 weeks to be w/Charlie during the day, but returns to college in the fall. Stephanie doesn't see alot of change in her work schedule by then, but is taking things one day at a time right now. No firm decisions have been made, but it sounds like she is leaning towards bringing Charlie home, at least on a trial basis.

One thing for sure, she wants to do what is best for Charlie in the long run. That answer has just not made itself crystal clear to her yet. She is anxious to visit him and see how Charlie reacts to seeing her and her son.

Stephanie is going to give me another update in a few days to let us know how Charlie is healing. I let her know that he is in the thoughts and prayers of many of us.

Jacque, this story has really sunk into my psyche too.
Posted By: Jacque

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/17/09 01:45 AM

Thank you for the update. I hope this works out the best for everyone involved...especially Charlie.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/17/09 02:38 AM

It's great to hear that Charlie did so well with the surgery. I'll continue to send prayers his way for a speedy recovery and for Stephanie with such a difficult road ahead of her.
Nancy
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/17/09 02:40 AM

More prayers from Maine. Hope they can reunite:-)
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/17/09 03:19 AM

Thanks so much Janet. I really hope everything is on the mend for him now.continued prayers.
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/21/09 05:38 PM

Thanks again for the update EM, Charlie has certainly captured a place in many of our hearts. Prayers and positive thoughts going out to him and his family.
Posted By: stephaniew

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 03:06 AM

Hi Everyone!! It's Stephanie, Charlie's mom. I'm sorry it has been so long, crazy busy. Charlie is still at Best Friends(what a group!!!!!!). He had surgery one week ago today and is doing well, I hear. He is leaving the sweater alone and is being a trooper taking his medications. Wendy at best friends says he holds onto the end of the syringe, but takes the medicine. How sweet, huh? He will probably stay with them until surgical site is healed and then we will give it our best. I truely could not have made it this far without the quick assistance I got from u guys, best friends and of course, my guiding light, Janet. janet has called me at least weekly through this and has offered the emotional support I have needed. And ultimately and the most important, got charlie the help he so desperately needed. Thanks to all again. I hope anyone who has a bird visits ur site and learns half of what I have. It's an eye opener!!! I, and Janet, will keep all updated. Thank you again Janet!!!
Posted By: Brandy's mom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 03:15 AM

Thanks so much for the update...I was thinking of you not 15 minutes ago. Still sending prayers for Charlie...sounds like he's doing very well. Excellent news!
Posted By: MissYumYum

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 03:18 AM

Wonderful news, Stephanie!! Thank you so much for posting and letting us know how Charlie is doing - we are all pulling for him and hope that you two can be together again when he has healed sufficiently! Janet is a real jewel, isn't she? We are all so fortunate to have her guidance and support!

Take care and keep us updated!

Annette
Posted By: Janny

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 04:04 AM

Thanks so much Stephanie! I am so happy to hear Charlie is doing well. Please stay strong for that boy!
Posted By: Jacque

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 04:31 AM

Thanks for keeping us updated. We have all been very concerned about both you and Charlie.
Posted By: FeatheredAngels

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 05:58 AM

So very good to hear from you Stephanie smile. Keeping you and Charlie in our prayers, many hugs and positive thoughts for you both!
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/25/09 08:52 AM

Stephanie it's great to hear that Charlie is doing so well! We're all pulling for a speedy recovery.
Nancy
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 07/26/09 02:16 AM

You and Charlie are very welcome, Stephanie! I can't wait to hear how you and your sons visit went with Charlie today.
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/04/09 05:05 AM

Stephanie just called and asked me to update everyone...I hadn't spoken to her for awhile until late last week.

Charlie is all healed. BF's vet does not believe that the mutilation caused the sepsis infection, but rather that the sepsis infection caused the mutilation. What may have caused the infection remains a mystery. Charlie has been out of the sweater and is showing no signs of harming himself. He has been spending a good portion of his days alone while his caretaker works, and everyone feels that Charlie is now ready to come home.

Stephanie is driving to BF's next weekend to do just that. His medication is over snd his diet has een successfully converted. Stephanie's son, a HS senior this year only has an abbreviated school day and will be home midday to care for Charlie while Stephanie is at work.

The decision to bring Charlie home is not one that Stephanie took lightly. She has given it alot of thought as well as discussing it with the wonderful folks at BF's. In the event that Charlie does not do well at home, BF's has left their door open to him indefinitely. Charlie is always welcomed there. What a wonderful organization they are!!

I asked Stephanie to update me after Charlie is home and when she does I'll update everyone.
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/04/09 11:13 AM

EM Thank you so much for such a great update!! I'm so happy that Charlie is doing so well and can return home and will be looking forward to updates from Stephanie on his progress. I can't find the words to describe my feelings about Best Friends and their commitment to saving and helping animals in need I guess WOW and happy tears will have to do for now.
Nancy
Posted By: Rukesmom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/04/09 03:04 PM

Yahooo!!!!! :-) ;-)
Posted By: MissYumYum

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/04/09 04:44 PM

Awesome news, EM! I am so happy for Stephanie and Charlie! BF deserves all the donations and great press they get - kudos to them! I'd love to visit them someday!

Annette
Posted By: EchosMom

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/29/09 05:25 AM

Just heard from Stephanie - Charlie is HOME! She and her son picked him up on the 19th of the month.

The surgical site is completely healed and is covering over with lots of new feathers. He is grooming normally, eating well and overall is just happy to be home. Stephanie's work load has lightened so she is getting home much earlier, and her son who is a senior this year, is home from school around the noon hour each day. He's playing and sleeping well also.

Kudos again to Best Friends for stepping up to the plate and welcome home Charlie!
Posted By: BE2Cassie

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/29/09 10:52 AM

What a fantastic ending, something we don't hear of enough!!! Great job Em in getting involved and helping Stephanie find the help that Charlie needed! And a huge thank you to Best Friends for all they did for Charlie.
Nancy
Posted By: MissYumYum

Re: What type of behavior is this? - 09/29/09 04:45 PM

Fabulous news!!!

Annette
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